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Post by Niek on Nov 15, 2015 11:34:48 GMT
Hi all, I own a National M2 and a couple of weeks ago I discovered the coating was showing some strange spots all over the body. Like it had the measles  At first I was shocked because I thought it was a humidity problem so I bought a humidity meter. That wasn't the case. Humidity is changing between 50% and 60% I contacted Artisan Guitars in America where I bought the guitar and they put me in contact with National guitars. As it seems, the supplier of there coatings did had a bad batch. Unfortunately there is no way they could ask for compensation because there supplier is out of business  National offered me to send in the guitar and they will renew the coating which is great! Warranty has already expired. Shipping is the responsibility of the customer. I will have to pay a lot of money to send in the guitar and it has to be fully insured. Friday I brought the guitar to Fedex and filled in all the paperwork. At the moment the guitar is on it's way and should arrive on thursday. On the internet I read that Martin&Co gives lifetime warranty (limited) on the finish and parts. National doesn't give this lifetime warranty. Now I will have to pay a lot of money for shipping the guitar to the USA and back to the Netherlands just because there supplier had a bad batch of coating and is out of business. For shipping the guitar to the the USA I already paid 200 euros! What's your opinion on this? Just a case of bad luck or should National give me some compensation? |
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 15, 2015 12:59:06 GMT
Hmmm. In English law, if you bought the guitar from Artisan Guitars your contract was with them, not NRP, and therefore they would likely to be liable.
However, we're talking about the USA here and anything goes out there, in my experience.
The fact that NRP's coating suppliers have gone out of business should not cloud the issue (pun intended).
NRPs own quality control / assurance system should have picked up this problem (it already has apparently)and they should recoat at their cost, including shipping.
The fact that they or Artisan can't claim compensation from their supplier should not affect them compensating you.
I've already said, this is the USA, and they really can duck and weave out there if the mood takes them.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, best of luck. PD
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Post by beefheart on Nov 15, 2015 13:28:16 GMT
I'm surprised that a supplier of quality instruments wouldn't try a good deal harder - they should be very humble and embarrassed that such a dreadful issue got past their qc. You are being treated shabily by Nrp. I wouldn't be as calm as you, apparently, are.
Peter
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Post by Stevie on Nov 15, 2015 14:12:28 GMT
If the warranty has already expired (as stated), then from my perspective, I reckon NRP are being far from shabby, and if it was me, I definitely would not bad mouth them as such on a public forum. Their liability has to terminate at some stage doesn't it? What would an appropriate and sympathetic re-fin cost here in the UK?
e&oe...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 14:55:38 GMT
If the warranty has already expired (as stated), then from my perspective, I reckon NRP are being far from shabby, and if it was me, I definitely would not bad mouth them as such on a public forum. Their liability has to terminate at some stage doesn't it? What would an appropriate and sympathetic re-fin cost here in the UK? e&oe... This was a factory defect, NRP has acknowledged this. It therefore is entirely their responsibility. The US does have lemon laws. NRP has dropped the ball big time on this. If their economic model is so fragile that they are forced to make their customers pay in order to correct their mistake -- and their lack of quality control -- then they won't last long in business anyway. They're charging premium prices for what increasingly seems to be -- between peeling finishes and buzzing, shifting cones -- substandard guitars. My cheapo Chinese-built Johnson has none of these problems and has been going strong for about 15 years now. |
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Post by beefheart on Nov 15, 2015 15:53:13 GMT
If the warranty has already expired (as stated), then from my perspective, I reckon NRP are being far from shabby, and if it was me, I definitely would not bad mouth them as such on a public forum. Their liability has to terminate at some stage doesn't it? What would an appropriate and sympathetic re-fin cost here in the UK? e&oe... |
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Post by beefheart on Nov 15, 2015 16:06:17 GMT
Looks like I quoted then replied in the wrong order. Nieks issue is not related to wear, tear or ageing. I'm surprised that anyone would think that National should expect a customer to pay a deal of money to have "their" mistake fixed. As to criticism on a public forum - based on the information in this thread, they deserve it.
Peter
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 18:07:04 GMT
I own a National M2 and a couple of weeks ago. Warranty has already expired. I believe NRP warranty is two years. I assume therefore that the guitar is pre-owned. As it seems, the supplier of there coatings did had a bad batch. This was a factory defect, NRP has acknowledged this. Do you have a link to this, or is it hearsay? I discovered the coating was showing some strange spots all over the body. Like it had the measles. Any pics of this? TT |
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Post by Bottleneck John on Nov 15, 2015 18:19:58 GMT
Do a "Relic" job on it instead.. Make it look really old and shabby and the coating problem will be solved!
I'd do that for sure.
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Post by Stevie on Nov 15, 2015 18:29:27 GMT
What I am taking from this is the fact that I have a reasonable claim against what remains of the SAAB company because all the fabric on the headlining and door panels is de-laminating? SAAB obviously used unsatisfactory adhesive so I may have a legitimate claim to have the interior re-trimmed at their cost, provided that I pay the transit costs each way to and from Nykoping? Good luck with that eh?
e&oe...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 19:15:27 GMT
What I am taking from this is the fact that I have a reasonable claim against what remains of the SAAB company because all the fabric on the headlining and door panels is de-laminating? SAAB obviously used unsatisfactory adhesive so I may have a legitimate claim to have the interior re-trimmed at their cost, provided that I pay the transit costs each way to and from Nykoping? Good luck with that eh? e&oe... Nope, not the same situation. In this case, National NRP has admitted they used a bad batch of varnish on their guitars and shipped them out anyway. They sold a product they knew was defective. When a car company discovers a factory defect in their cars, they are required to perform recalls -- almost always at the car company's expense -- in order to repair the product. Deuce: read the OP's post: he stated that National NRP themselves acknowledged to him they had a bad batch of varnish. That's why they offered to fix the guitar for him. What he's complaining about is that they are requiring him to put out the cost of postage, which seems unreasonable to me. This is one reason I avoid buying guitars from the US when you're overseas (and I'm American, I can pay in dollars). I know it's tempting, but it's just as equally tempting for the sellers in the US to send their duds. |
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Post by Stevie on Nov 15, 2015 19:23:04 GMT
You know when you contribute to a public forum, you must expect to have your remarks challenged. At least we can agree to differ (I hope?)
e&oe...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 19:29:56 GMT
Deuce: read the OP's post: I read it. Drop the attitude. TT |
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Post by Quarterquay on Nov 15, 2015 20:31:09 GMT
In this case, National NRP has admitted they used a bad batch of varnish on their guitars and shipped them out anyway. They sold a product they knew was defective. If the spotting has only just started to appear, then it can't really be said that National knowingly shipped out a faulty batch of guitars. I cannot imagine for a second that they would do that. Really what would be the point. It's far more likely that they weren't even aware of the problem until various owners started to pointed it up a couple of years minimum later as is the case with this particular guitar. We don't know how many guitars this has effected nor how long ago the batch were shipped. It might only be a handful of instruments. This particular guitar was out of it's two year warranty before the present owner noticed the problem and we don't know how long it's been out of warranty. Could be five years, three years, X years, six months. Equally National may well have tried to track down owners of this batch once they were aware. We don't know either way. Add to that that instruments get sold on making it hard to trace them any way. Even so, if it were my company and reputation on the line and this fault was traced back to a faulty coating I'd sort it out free of charge and shipping. |
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Post by snakehips on Nov 15, 2015 20:39:29 GMT
Hi there !
NRP admitting they know about a faulty batch of guitar finish doesn't necessarily mean they knew about it BEFORE applying the finish.
The owner of the guitar, I think, stated that the defects in the finish only appeared after some time - and beyond the warranty guarantee.
That means a whole batch of NRP guitars could have been finished with the faultyneck finish, and out the NRP factory doors AND sold on by dealers around the world BEFORE the neck finish began to become faulty.
In the meantime, these said guitars would be getting used by their owners, some looked after really well, and some perhaps, less well.
Did ALL of this batch of guitars develop the problem, or just some ??
If not all of them, then it surely that points to factors outwith the NRP factory having an influence in the outcome of finish blemishes etc, OR NOT.
If you can directly quote NRP saying that they used a product on their guitars, knowing full well, before using the product, that it was faulty, THEN that is another thing entirely.
We await such a direct quote. Until then, quit bending the truth !
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