|
Post by bod on Feb 26, 2009 19:50:00 GMT
Hi
As recently related elsewhere in these pages, I currently find myself turning to lap-style slide guitar. What with me being the kind of critter that I am and all, I have questions and seek info, but will try to keep this within reasonable limits here...
Where I'm up to with this:
I'm planning to get started by fitting some kind of nut extension (nut riser) to an "ok but nothing special" acoustic in my possession, and will shortly be approaching the good folks at Diamond Bottlenecks for a tone-bar (I love the bottleneck they did for me, so I'll try one of their tone-bars). I'm inclined to go for one of the big thick El Gordos (seems in keeping with my big hands and thick fingers...) with a "bullet" nose profile....
Clearly much hereabouts is a matter of personal preference and so on, but I'd like to avoid basic mistakes if I can, so..
Questions arising:
1) Is there much to choose between nut extension/raising devices?
[e.g., are there types best avoided (damage the instrument, perhaps)? Does the material make much odds? (I've seen steel, brass and aluminium variants advertised on t'interweb)]
2) DB offer any length of tone-bar, just state your personal preference, lovely - but I don't have a preference yet, never used one, see.. So, can anything general be said about a rough place to start exploring - e.g., is a tone-bar roughly the same length as a person's index finger a likely starting place? (Looking on youtube that appears to be approixmately what some are using, so far as I can see)
3) Any other basic tips/pointers that anyone'd like to pass along?
Many thanks
Dave
|
|
|
Post by jackstrat on Feb 26, 2009 20:22:36 GMT
Hiya Bod
Speaking not as an expert, but as someone who's only taken to the world of lapslide in the past 18 months (been tipping at 'standard' guitar for years though) here's my thrupence worth:
I got what I think is an aluminium nut riser and it works fine. Two things...I put a little masking tape on the underside, where it meets the neck to avoid any potential scratching. Someone (probably someone on here) gave me an important piece of advice too - if using a nut riser, stick to tunings such as the low bass open G or open D...some of the higher pitch tunings might put too much strain on the neck because of the changed height of the strings...
Once I'd satisfied myself that I wanted to continue playing lapstyle, I took the plunge and bought a Busker Hobo from Robin Clark...I've not looked back since...super instrument for the money.
Ian at DB made me an extra-long bar...4 inches!! Quite simply coz I'm always dropping those bullet-shaped bars and the extra length just made it easier to hold...sounds great too!! In the general run of things though, I prefer the railroad type snub-nosed bar...no problems with grip there...
The guys on here are bursting with tips and info, so you've definitely come to the right place...sit back and wait for the replies!!
regards, Niall
|
|
|
Post by clarke111 on Feb 26, 2009 22:37:45 GMT
Hi Bod,
I'm a bit like Niall and yourself in that i have only recently got into lap slide, its a great way to play the guitar and opens up a lot of new sounds.
I started like you on an old, but ok acoustic fitted with a cheap nut raiser I purchased off E bay, it does the job and I still use it (I cut off a small section of playing card and put it under the fretboard edge to prevent scratches). It won't sound as good as a properly cut raised bone nut, but will certainly get you sliding!! Dropped tunings are the way to go as Niall says, you don't want to much stess on that neck, having said that, I'd fit some fairly heavy stings to get the best tone.
I also took the plunge through Busker guitars and bought a square neck tricone, which is great, but I stil play round necks with a nut raiser a lot.
As for bars, if you're anything like me and you get hooked you will go through a lot!! Ian at DB will no doubt give you some great advice and fit you up with a beautiful bar in no time, if not there are plenty of decent railroad bars about, but those DB bars are outstanding! If you decide to play lap style on a reso I think you can't beat the tribotone bars, fantastic, despite the price they are well worth it.
Enjoy and let us know how you go,
Chris
|
|
|
Post by Ian McWee on Feb 27, 2009 9:59:05 GMT
Hi Bod! Look forward to hearing from you mate . Although i'm a bottlenecker first & foremost and only dabbled very slightly with the lap-slide stuff, in my (and most of the 'multi-tasking' pro-sliders who i meet) humble opinion, the best bullet-style bars available for lap-slide on resonator guitars are Eric's Tribotone bars (they're also the #1 choice above anything else out there for electric lap-slide & Pedal Steel instruments). Steel bars, like the Latch-Lake 'Brozophonic' bar, come a very close second to Tribotone, but glass doesn't cut the mustard when used lap-style on resonators due to the lack of necessary available weight required to 'drive' the resonator cone and provide volume - glass gives a sweet, smooth 'sparkly' tone, but doesn't provide volume....i'm the proud owner of one of the original 'Yellow Rose of Texas' Tribotone bars Eric kindly sent over to me, and if ever i flick my Beltona triplate into lap-slide position - it's the first bar i reach for & yes, they are expensive...but they really are worth the extra pennies! If you're concentrating on wooden-bodied lap-slide guitar (Wiessenborn-style or a converted acoustic), then general opinions are divided 50/50 equally between steel bars & glass bars - we're still talking about bullet-type bars here - for both that necessary volume & tone where the weight issue doesn't really come into play here - the tone is governed by bar materials, not weight. I'm sure most folks on the forum here ('allo Niall & Chris ) own bars made from steel, glass & Tribotone plastic & their opinions & input will be spot-on! Cheers guys & Slide On! Ian.
|
|
|
Post by melp on Feb 27, 2009 12:20:05 GMT
Hi Bod, I wanted to have a go at lap style also. Even got a nut raiser, but have never used it. I have a Squire telecaster that I upgraded. When I was replacing the plastic nut, I made two, one normal and a raised one for lap style. I managed to find a blank that had not been cut down. This works fine. Don't see any reason why you could not use the same approach, just get a nut blank and leave it high. I have not spent much time with lap style. I have two bars, a Shubb RR1 railroad thing, and a Dunlop 919 stainless steel bullet. The Shubb is OK. The bullet seems more flexible but I cannot not seem to keep in my hand, keep dropping it. I will keep plugging away in the background, but have lots of other things to learn at the moment. Good Luck! Mel
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Feb 27, 2009 14:10:46 GMT
Hi Bod/Dave,
To start getting your head and hands around lap steel guitar playing, I don't think you need any more tools than you already have. Lay your guitar on your lap and with a regular bottleneck or slide of some kind, start playing. I played lap steel guitar for a few years before I ever thought about getting a raised action instrument. After a short time I did start using a Hawaiian bullet steel, but for the first few years that was how I played. I still do play regular guitars as lap steels.
All the advice you have been given by Niall, Chris, Ian & Mel, is spot on too! Everyone has their own way. I just don't believe that it is necessary to do anything other than play. I would advise you to spend your money on buying as much music as possible by people who play lap steel guitar in the style that interests you.
Shine On Michael
|
|
|
Post by melp on Feb 28, 2009 22:18:03 GMT
Bod,
Now there's some good advice, from MM! I should have mentioned the reason I have never used the nut raiser is that I can play lap on both my Busker Cannon and my MM blues without it! Just need to be a bit delicate.
regards
Mel
|
|
|
Post by SoloBill on Feb 28, 2009 22:57:14 GMT
Hi all, I'm not trying to highjack Dave's thread but is there an equivalent to the Michael Messer teaching DVD for lap style playing?
|
|
|
Post by bod on Mar 1, 2009 9:08:04 GMT
Thanks all for the input. Very helpful tips, very helpful of you. Gotta luv this forum/community...
Funny thing; I had tried just what Michael suggested - i.e., work lap style with the tools already at my disposal - a couple of times before posting. I got close to nowhere, loads of bumps and clunks, no real clean sounds or sustain and so forth, so I came to the (mistaken / premature) conclusion that I was probably trying to do something that just wouldn't work and that I'd just have to get some appropriate tools for the job. After reading the responses I tried again encouraged with the knowledge that it could be done armed only with the tools already in the house and, well, you couldn't call it instant success (but then in my experience success rarely is instant) but some progress was made. Eventually, I managed to extract some half way recognisable variations on themes from MM's slide tutorial dvd.
As Mel indicates, it takes a delicate touch - but it can be done. (This might be a little odd, but I found that holding my Ultimate slide sorta 'twixt index and middle finger, with the tip of my thumb tucked just inside the end of the slide helped me to gain some finer control and keep the touch light). So, I guess I'll hold fire on acquiring any of the aforementioned bits and pieces, for now, and explore and experiment a bit with what I got in the meantime and come back to the acquisitions question in a little while, and in the light of all the other insights and suggestions offered above.
So thanks again.
Oh! Before I go, can I just echo Bill's (very non-hijacking) question:
Anyone know whether is there some equivalent to MM's slide tutorial dvd for lap style slide?
(I know there are lap style tutor dvds out there, but whether any of them are the lap-style equivalent of Michael's slide dvd is a good question - I think the word "equivalent" in this context both sets the bar high and introduces some specificity as regards content / approach, as those familiar with Michael's dvd can probably fill out those details for themselves, I'll not further extend this already length posting)
|
|
|
Post by melp on Mar 1, 2009 10:11:23 GMT
Hi, I am using the Bob Brozman ones, slide guitar for blues, lap style vol 1 & 2 www.bobbrozman.com/videos.htmlThese are very good and the organisation, content and presentation is excellent. (I have made some notes on my experience on learning slide on my website, in case its of interest web.me.com/melproudfoot/Site/Learning_Bottleneck_Slide.html). The thing, for me, with Michael's DVD and the Bob Brozman ones is to realise that they are really packed with information. Meaning that 60 seconds of video on a point or technique may take me a week, or more, to get. This is fine, but like all good content rich instructional materials, its going to take time. I have found that jumping ahead does not work. So, its slog away at the basics. Cheers Mel
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Mar 1, 2009 10:13:48 GMT
I have wanted to make a lap steel for beginners tutorial DVD for a while. We are planning to do one, it is really just a matter of scheduling the time and making it happen.
Meanwhile, anything I can do to help....just ask. Your questions actually help me as much as they do you. The questions help me to develop the lesson that will eventually end up on a DVD.
Shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by SoloBill on Mar 5, 2009 21:23:21 GMT
Well Michael, From a comment on another thread a while ago, I clearly need some instruction in the very basics, like how to hold the slide when playing lap style?
|
|
|
Post by blueshome on Mar 5, 2009 22:37:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by thebluesbear( al) on Mar 6, 2009 18:33:24 GMT
hi
earlier this week someone posted a thread about blind boy fuller. about one hour after reading it i was having a go a learning pistol slapper blues
today after reading this thread on lap slide
well ill think il try it this forum is such fun
cheers for the inspiration
al
|
|
|
Post by Gerry C on Mar 6, 2009 20:36:29 GMT
Last Monday I met up with blueshome (Phil) and Diamond Dac Charnley at the Grove in Leeds. Before formal proceedings began, Phil was playing a 12-bar on his splendid Fraulini 12-string in E tuned down to B and I turned over the ol' Lightning onto my lap with my normal big brass slide and started in from the 4th fret (I was in Open G). It worked OK - most of the time! - and it was great to hear those sweet sounds coming straight up at me! I've only tried this once before but it was easier then as everyone was playing in G, so I suppose when you're playing in B out of G some clams have to be expected... But it can be done, as Michael says, straight away with whatever you've got.
Cheerily,
Gerry C
|
|