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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Mar 6, 2009 22:05:55 GMT
Will be having a go tommorow
im Glad to hear the account gerry
would like to have been there
al
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Post by andys on Mar 6, 2009 23:18:35 GMT
I still have my electric lap steel that started me into playing slide inthe first place many years ago. It is currently in a sorry state and is on my list of renovation projects as we speak.
However recently I picked up an old Vintage Dobro Spider cone style guitar with a rather ropey neck, so with the addition of a homemade nut raiser, it now is my lap steel guitar. I play it with a combination of either my old lap steel tone bar which is well obsolete, or a standard slide that I usually use. I use it in open D, Open G or a recently discovered open D6th tuning that doesnt involve changing any strings.
Lap style playing is fun, though addictive.
I really must get round to renovating that old lap steel though, they are fun as string changes are easy, and you dont have to worry too much about taking strings up in tune a lot.
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Post by bod on Mar 7, 2009 4:57:17 GMT
Hi The nut raiser that I'd ordered before deciding, in light of Michael's advice, to persevere for the time being with what was at hand turned up. So I thought I'd give it a try, but while it certainly raised the strings, which I found a definite advantage, the guitar in question seemed to lose a lot of tone and neither time nor fiddling seemed to fix it, so I ended up taking it off - just a bad match of instrument and gadget, I guess. Still, no great loss...
Then I thought I'd take a wander to the guitar shop, see if they had anything lap style in stock and, if so, whether I might be able trade in one of the the guitars I can't play properly right now for something that I can. Didn't hold out much hope, really but it is always nice to have an excuse to go and look at the guitars... So I was a little surprised when my partner gently insisted on coming along, she doesn't usually want to spend time in the guitar shop (Might she be worried I'm going to blow the budget on another guitar, I wondered).
Anyway, in brief, the chap at the shop had precisely one lap style instrument, a square neck Regal RD-40 (dobro style), about which he said 'Nice little dobro, for a beginner. If you want it, I can let you have it for around £200, and that's a good deal. They tend to go for rather more than that now, but it's been on the wall for a while and I got it before the prices went up'. Only trouble was, this unexpectedly low figure ruled out the part exchange plan, so we wandered off for a coffee instead.
Then Julie stuns me by saying, 'Look its your birthday next week, why don't you check out that Regal some more, and maybe go look at some reviews and stuff, if it is a good deal and you like it, then me and the kids'll get it for you. That's why I wanted to come to the shop with you, before I bought you anything, just in case...'.
So, a little while later, here I am, like a little kid in the run up to Xmas, counting the days (are we nearly there yet!). Can't think of the last time I was actually excited about my birthday ;D
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Post by clarke111 on Mar 7, 2009 8:20:08 GMT
Hey Bod,
Well that is very generous of her!! Excellent to have such a supportive partner, mine is more likely to try and sell guitars whilst I'm not looking I fear!! ; ) I'm sure you will be very happy with the Regal, and £200 sounds like a good deal.
Although it should be the 'how you play it' bit that counts, not much beats getting a new guitar to play with!! Enjoy!
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Post by robn on Mar 7, 2009 23:24:02 GMT
Hi Bod,
I did pretty much the same as you a few year’s ago. I bought a relatively cheap spiderbridge squareneck coz I fancied playing some lap style (I also thought that it would be a little easier on my hand and shoulder injuries than my round neck was proving).
Well, I have not looked back – and that cheap dobro (albeit well tweaked!) is now my primary instrument – though it did take me a while to really get into it. So here are a few tips from my own experience about beginning lap-style slide on your new Regal spiderbridge squareneck. These are just things I have discovered for myself and so are opinions rather than "truths":
a. It is quite hard to play a squareneck as a solo instrument.
b. It is quite easy to play a squareneck in a duo or band.
c. Less is often more – you don’t have to do much to really add something special to the mix.
d. DADF#AD is a good tuning for blues and ballads. It is possibly an easier starting point than GBDGBD, particularly if you are already familiar with the tuning.
e. GBDGBD is a good tuning for bluegrass, country, Hawaiian and many other genera – it is the “classic” tuning for spiderbridge squarenecks and you will find most dobro teaching material uses this tuning.
f. In both DADF#AD and GBDGBD you can “fake” minor chords by missing out the 3rd (just play the 1st and 5th of the chord). Using this technique you can play along to just about anything when you sit in on a session. It is a little easier method of coping with minor chords in a song than slants, and musically, it works very well.
g. Buy a capo designed for squarenecks (such as the Shubb capo for dobro) – they certainly help when you are sitting in on sessions.
h. I use a railroad style bar rather than a bullet – and I prefer sharp ends for pull offs and accuracy for single note runs. I use a Shubb GS (wood handle) or a Shubb SP3. Hanging on to the bar (I play standing most of the time) is as important to me as pure tonal quality!
i. Learn to play standing up – it is a very useful skill for gigs and sessions. You will need a specially sized dobro guitar strap
When I first got my squareneck I spent a lot of time in open D working out solo numbers – which was fine but it is quite hard work to perfect solo numbers. It wasn’t until I realised that I had what was primarily an instrument of accompaniment rather than a solo instrument that I really began to enjoy my playing and see success. Now I use the instrument for adding slide fills, putting in slide lead breaks or providing rhythm and drive to songs through chops and roll patterns.
I had no interest in bluegrass before I bought my dobro – in fact I purchased it with the intention of playing blues. And it spent probably the first year I owned it just in open D. But owning the instrument opened up opportunities! Now I gig with a completely mad bluegrass band – and it is the best musical fun I’ve ever had ;D ;D ;D
Robin
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Post by bod on Mar 8, 2009 21:42:46 GMT
Robin, Thanks for sharing your experience and insights, I do appreciate it. Very interesting. I especially like the idea that squarenecks kind of call for playing with others, and that it is relatively easy to contribute something with one. I've not done much playing with others and I tend to panic and then blow it But maybe I should just start playing this dobro with others from the off, so that no one - me included - has any expectations cos' we'll all know I'm new to it. As it happens my youngest son (17) has today been saying he'd like us to try playing together, which is both unexpected and very welcome, and he's got a Tele so the sounds'll probably blend quite nicely, too. Anyway, unwrapped the Regal this morning and have spent much of the day on it. Haven't changed out of GBDGBD yet, just been having fun toying with this new tuning, mainly trying to get some rolls going. I'm working with a railroad type bar at the moment too. It's the one that the shop had in stock - a Dunlop Long Dawg - very different to a bottleneck, obviously, but feels nice in the hand. Hope you'll all pardon my gushing enthusiasm, as I put up a picture or two: Can't quite believe how neat this sounds for a bargain basement instrument. As others have said, there is something very cool about having the sound of the cone coming up at your head like that. Anyway, their calling for me to go have some chocolate cheesecake now not a bad day, not at all
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 4:28:05 GMT
IMO the perfect teaching lap slide DVD is yet to be produced (We are all waiting on Mr. Messer here). So far the best IMO is the Bob Brozman "Learn Traditional Hawaiian Steel Guitar" video. All others are ok I guess... Exploration is always good advice! Just tune it up and make some sound. That's what I did for many years. It's a fun instrument to experiment with.
See you on the strings, Eric
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Post by andys on Mar 10, 2009 12:12:02 GMT
I have been doing some more playing of my battered Vintage, and experimenting with different tunings. I have put a home-made brass nut raiser on it, and am using an old tone bar that I had from years ago, when I first got a lap steel. When I get a bit more proficient, I am going to replace the nut raiser with a bone high nut, but I'm just having fun with the thing at the moment.
I have tried it in open D, which is nice, but pretty obviously "bluesy"
I have yet to try the GBDGBD, as I want to put a slightly lighter string on to get that lower G. Also I have been having a lot of fun with the tuning below.
DADF#BD. It is nice because there is a nice low bluesy growl on the low strings, yet the top ones sound much more Hawaiian. Its a really nice tuning for noodling around on.
The true joy though for me, of playing lap-style, is hearing the direct tone of your resonator, something you can only do when playing non-lap style, by having someone else play your guitar.
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Post by bod on Mar 12, 2009 13:08:54 GMT
AndyS, I've been trying that DADF#BD tuning which you recommended - love it. As you say, kinda bluesy or Hawaiian sounding depending what strings you emphasise. Can see I'm going to have fun playing around with that.
Also, there's this string bending thing - I s'pect you're familiar with it, but it's new to me, I saw it on a Jerry Douglas vid - where you drop the tip of the ring finger of your slide hand through the strings on the nut side of the slide and gently pull sideways/release to raise/lower the note of the chosen string. Anyway, doing this with the second string in the above tuning seems to allow moving between the Hawaiian sound (6th?) and a bluesier one (b7th?) on the higher strings too. Anyway, it gives me an additional move for noodling around ;D
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Post by andys on Mar 12, 2009 15:17:07 GMT
Yes and another thing about this DADF#BD is that with a few turns of the 2nd string you can drop it into open D, for a purer blues sound.
Another trick with these two tunings is to use the nose if the tone bar, to make the F# into a G, just a touch, then a nice slide up. Looks flashier than it really is!!!!
I'm having a lot of fun with this cheap, knackered old guitar. My MM Blues is starting to get a bit jealous, though the action on that guitar is a bit too low to use for lap style.
Never mind, I'm may be going to busk with the MM tomorrow for Comic Relief, so it should get some play time again.
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 12, 2009 18:22:59 GMT
I use a variation of the D6 tuning a lot on my Dobro. I use a Gmaj7th tuning that opens quite a lot of possibilities up. The one I use is high bass GBDF#BD, but you can also do it with a low bass tuning DGDF#BD. This is a major 7th tuning across all six strings / 6th tuning across the top four strings / regular G tuning by sharpening 3rd string by one fret / open D tuning on strings 6 4 3 1. And there are one or two more combinations that are interesting.
I used to play a few tunes in the DADF#BD tuning. I first learnt about D6 from Sam Mitchell. Sam's father, Sammy Mitchell, played Hawaiian guitar and rhythm guitar with Felix Mendelson's band.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2009 20:43:49 GMT
My tip for beginning lap style is not to watch the following (unless you want to end up crying )
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Post by bod on Mar 14, 2009 1:26:48 GMT
Michael - a fab tuning, thanks for sharing it. Such a small step from the usual Dobro high G, so I'm guessing that a good range of the things that can be done in high G can still be done with only slight adjustment (of course, the range of things I can do in high G is still pretty limited, not to mention slow, anyway) but what a lot of options it creates (was pleased to find the B minor (?) in the middle as well). Quite an eye-opener/thought-provoker about this way of playing, and loads here to explore and experiment with, too. Thanks again
Benspinks, that's awesome and I so see what you're getting at - but (now that I've stopped crying) I derive a different tip for beginners from it, start learning about forty years earlier and don't forget to get born talented! (Maybe next time around, who knows?)
Cheers
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 14, 2009 10:12:23 GMT
Hi Bod,
Glad you are finding the info useful. I did say there are lots of other possibilities in the major 7th tuning, one of which is that moveable minor chord. There are minors everywhere in this tuning >strings 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 4 & 5, 5 & 3.....etc.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by bod on Mar 14, 2009 12:17:05 GMT
And there was me all childishly chuffed to have found the movable minor on the middle four strings! - if this were a cartoon it'd be around now that I grew the donkey ears!
I did know there'd be more to find, given your previous remarks, but it never dawned on me I might be missing quite so much that was right there in front of me (new tip for self: don't forget, when looking for chord options don't only think of triads and larger... look out for what can be implied..) Still, all part of the fun, I guess, and thanks for pointing it out...
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