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Post by steverino on Jul 18, 2011 21:46:15 GMT
This is a tremendous thread; my thanks to all.
Mark, I was so surprised when I bought Triolian #42P a few months ago and found that it has a three piece body. The instrument has been refinished but still has its original body, neck and cone. It is a real cannon with big bass and a rich, mellow rather than trash can tone. Now thanks to you I know how its construction and sound fit into the scheme of things.
Alexandre our Triolians share several features, such as the early short headstock with straight slots at the top. The three piece body has a relatively sharp corner between top and side, where the drawn two piece has a larger smooth radius. As best I could tell from your video our instruments sound similar.
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Post by steverino on Jul 1, 2011 7:54:48 GMT
Eastmountain, the Rogue Triolian is near and dear to my heart. They are so inexpensive they are almost free, and with a little work are surprisingly decent instruments. For a while I was buying freight damaged ones on ebay, fixing them (collapsed cone, usually) and giving them to friends. The one I keep by my desk now is the only one I bought new... for $200 delivered! They are fun and responsive guitars for fingerstyle when set up for a low action, shallow break angle and Martin Silk & Steel strings.
I saw an old 12 fret National Trojan on ebay a while back that was very close to the Rogue. My guess is that one of these was shipped to China years ago to get the ball rolling on the popular Rogue model. The El Trovador you pictured is not so close as it has a longer and deeper body. I have an El Trov shaped body here (though fitted with a Schireson resonator) and it is 19 7/8" long, 14 1/2" wide at the lower bout and 3 7/8" deep. I think most of the 12 fret El Trov bodies were made by Kay. By contrast the Rogue body is 19 1/16" long,, 15" wide and 3 11/16" deep.
Anyway, I hope that you will be pleased with your Rogue. Please report back.
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Post by steverino on May 5, 2011 4:44:26 GMT
Congratulations! I have always thought the Collegian is a super cool and attractive variation on the Duolian. The couple I have tried have been real boomers. I have only seen them in yellow and blue, so yours may be a repaint. I can only load a thumbnail view, so it is hard to tell.
I have a number of old OMI brass bodies that were factory rejects, made from the same tooling as your prewar Collegian. Several of them have side splits. It seems it was a tall order to ask the metal to stretch into both back and sides in that deep draw press. NRP in California does marvelous repair work, though using them may be impractical considering your shipping distance.
The crumbling tuner buttons are the least of your problems. Stewart MacDonald can sell you replacements which are fairly easy to install. Torch heating of the shaft to push them on, followed by a squirt of medium viscosity super glue works well. I would remove each tuner and place it in a padded bench vise for this procedure.
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Post by steverino on May 1, 2011 5:44:57 GMT
Fascinating! Thanks so much for saving the photos, as the Craigslist ad is now gone. As I understand the story, John Dopyera worked on the spider bridge design at home in preparation for leaving National and starting the new Dobro company. It seems entirely plausible to me that he may have at first used a tricone (his pride and joy) as a test bed for new designs. This instrument is one of the earliest hand hammered examples, before the stamping dies were in use. Does that one picture show the spider/cone/cone well assembly sitting outside the guitar? The wood looks old and dark. If so, the spider cone well might have been set in the guitar in lieu of its original wooden well for the three cones.
I sure hope that one of the historian collectors (Colin?) acquired this piece and can tell us more about it at some point.
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Post by steverino on Apr 8, 2011 19:39:42 GMT
Outstanding work tymus, both in concept and execution. Bravo!
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Post by steverino on Jan 8, 2011 5:40:16 GMT
I attended a boarding grammar school in Berkeley, CA USA in the late 1960s, an interesting time and place to be sure. There was a kid there, a leftie, who had learned to play rock 'n roll on a right-strung guitar "upside down." I sometimes wonder where he is now and whether he still plays that way. I also remember that the kid was diabetic and injected himself with insulin daily, which we all thought was pretty cool at the time. I sure hope that he is still with us.
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Post by steverino on Jan 7, 2011 4:32:06 GMT
I am in awe, tymus. Superb work!
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Post by steverino on Dec 22, 2010 4:44:37 GMT
Pete, both your instruments are really interesting. That little Framus (I started to type Fokker!) is so cute with its proportionally huge headstock. I had a Framus banjo thirty years ago but traded it for a Mexican blanket while in Canada... go figure.
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Post by steverino on Oct 22, 2010 1:41:41 GMT
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Post by steverino on Sept 15, 2010 20:13:19 GMT
Tremendous thread, everyone.
Most old Nationals have passed through several owners' hands by now. My assumption when seeing the XXs is that the seller is worried that it may have been stolen in the past, and that upon publishing the serial number the rightful owner or the police could appear with a request to "hand it over." Of course we are all altruistic enough to wish to see such an instrument returned to its owner, right?
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Post by steverino on Sept 10, 2010 1:31:48 GMT
Greedyostrich you didn't mention whether the quiet single cone reso was a biscuit or spider model. I cut my teeth repairing these things by buying several very nice looking, horribly assembled spider bridge jobs on ebay. For a while they were selling for USD $69. brand new! The flaws were many: cheap cone, unlevel cone ledge, overweight spider, spider contacting coverplate(!), flimsy body. With a couple of parts upgrades and repairs they were made to sound just fine, and several of my friends enjoy them still.
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Post by steverino on Aug 27, 2010 7:05:06 GMT
I ran across Ritchie tonight in this clip; he seemed to be having fun.
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Post by steverino on Jul 12, 2010 4:35:51 GMT
I hope to avoid getting mired in a long debate (been there, done that), though this subject of tuning temperaments can resemble politics and religion in short order. I will offer as a piano tuner/technician of thirty five years' experience that I regard equal temperament as a blessing to mankind and an example of modern progress. Not only are musicians able to perform in any key without trepidation, but the mostly gentle amount of out-of-tuneness introduced to intervals by ET adds tonal colors to their sound that are both appealing and dependable. People who favor the early temperaments seem to regard perfectly tuned "just" intervals as an ideal, but my ear finds them bland and boring compared to ET. All a matter of what one is accustomed to, I suppose.
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Post by steverino on May 5, 2010 17:45:58 GMT
I learned a lot from your post, mistercanetoad. Thanks.
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Post by steverino on Mar 21, 2010 8:39:59 GMT
Wherever this disc can be found and at whatever price, I say just do it. It is a terrific DVD both in its teaching and in its fine performances.
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