collegian / supro

[Deleted]

Aa few things...

Hello first to all you experienced players.

Been playing for 35 years, but just got my first national today. Had a RK tricone for a couple of years which has been great, but nationals have now got me by the boo-boo.

So, I've got a '42 (brass) collegian with a few problems. First, it's maroon / purple - surely that ain't the real colour, although it looks like it is! Second, it's got a side split and a big dent - brazing / soldering / TIG welding/ hammering? Third, the tuning pegs have crumbled! - shed light please, and is this simple to fix?

Cheers dudes, all the way from sunny Evesham

[steverino]

Congratulations! I have always thought the Collegian is a super cool and attractive variation on the Duolian. The couple I have tried have been real boomers. I have only seen them in yellow and blue, so yours may be a repaint. I can only load a thumbnail view, so it is hard to tell.

I have a number of old OMI brass bodies that were factory rejects, made from the same tooling as your prewar Collegian. Several of them have side splits. It seems it was a tall order to ask the metal to stretch into both back and sides in that deep draw press. NRP in California does marvelous repair work, though using them may be impractical considering your shipping distance.

The crumbling tuner buttons are the least of your problems. Stewart MacDonald can sell you replacements which are fairly easy to install. Torch heating of the shaft to push them on, followed by a squirt of medium viscosity super glue works well. I would remove each tuner and place it in a padded bench vise for this procedure.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Deuce,

Welcome to our forum.

You have indeed got a Collegian! Could you let me know its serial number so we can confirm its date of manufacture for you?

The colour is not original. Steverino is correct that is was most likely maple coloured paint. Some Collegians have turned up in battleship grey (blue) and a few in white, but definitely not red.

It is hard to tell from the little thumbnail photo, but the coverplate needs returning to its original position, and by the sound of it some serious body work is needed as well. Luckily it is a painted finish, so you can cover any repairs that are done.

I would not attempt this work unless you are very experienced in this type of metalwork. Guitar repairers and luthiers are everywhere, but repairers and luthiers that 'really' understand National and Dobro guitars and would be able to take on this work and do it properly are few and far between. The person that builds and repairs my guitars is Mike Lewis at Fine Resophonic Guitars in Paris. Mike is in my opinion the world's leading repairer and builder of National & Dobro style guitars, but I do understand that Paris may be out of reach. If you are looking for someone in the UK, there are only two people in this country I would recommend you to go to; Dave King at Dave King Acoustics and John Alderson at Delta Resonator Guitars. There are other knowledgable resonator people, but none that I know of with their experience and skill.

The metalwork could possibly be done by an engineering shop, but that is a risky business with a vintage guitar. 28 years ago I restored a metal guitar body that needed some panel beating, filling and spraying. I took it to a specialist bodywork shop and they did a beautiful job. In those days I did not know what I know now and I was very lucky that the work was done well.

Good luck with restoring your guitar

Shine On
Michael.

[washboardchris]

Hi, you could try a chap called Patrick Arbuthnotwho is based in Norwich.He makes metal resonaror guitar as well as doing allsorts of hand metal work. send me a PM if you want his number ofr visit his website www.metal-guitar.co.uk/

[DaveRed]

Deuce, If your in the South Midlands, John Aldersonn will probably be fairly near you. He's based at Sapcote near Leicester. As Michael says he is very knowledgable, plus he's a really nice bloke.

Dave

[Deleted]

Thanks Washboard Chris - I may well take that up (depending on the leads MM has give too) - I'll Speak to him via the net.

Thanks very much MM! 'I'm not worthy etc etc!
Anyhow, the serial number is G3601, which I believe puts it 1940-2. Although it looks beaten up, I can visualise it in it's rightful condition someday. I have attached my snaps taken 1/2 hour ago - obviously it need some careful work, so I'll probably get onto the two names you have given me tomorrow. It sounds fine, so the (original) cone etc are no problem, and the neck and frets are near perfect - if anything the action feels a little low (lower than my RK tricone anyway), but the strings that came with it are very light - hopefully some 13-56s (for open d) will sort that out. Not sure why the coverplate is rotated - comfort? Maybe this'll start a craze. Can steverino (or someone) tell me how to get in touch with Stewart McDonald for the tuning pegs?
BTW - I bought some Martin 'lifespan' strings last week and one has already broken - rip-off!

[Deleted]

'Scuse me - I've attached a word doc with pics on it - and it appears to have worked!

thanks steverino - good advice
thanks DaveRed too - I'll try him first.

[DaveRed]

Deuce, This is the link to the StewMac site. These are the tuners which would probably be most suitable, they're fitted to all MM guitars at Busker Guitars.
www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar/Golden_Age_Restoration_1920s_style_Tuners_for_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar.html

Dave

[Deleted]

cheers dave - putting the order in now

TT

[toremainn]

In 2001 I tried/played my first National. It was a Collegian 39/yellow.
Then I decided to get a National, a dream I've had for several years. I even had a poster of Knopfler's Style-O in my bedroom !!!!
I found a Triolian 1937(piano finish) which is really great sounding.

The problem is: you get GAS.
So in 10 years I've increased my guitar-collection from 5 to 27.

No problem: you just keep a cheaper car.

[Deleted]

that made me laugh toremainn

To part-fund all this, I told the wife I'd sell a guitar I haven't used for 9 years (an esp ltd m-207) - she's still waiting for me to clean it us so she can take a picture of it for ebay. And I might have to swap my VW van (which she hates) for a sh*tty landrover next year.

Hope the pic of knobflers type o didn't have him on it... ugly git.

Maybe next year I'll get guitar number 8...

[Deleted]

Hi folks

I thought you might like an update on my collegian - John Alderson and Robin Page have just finished it -minty! stoked+++!! Seriously though, they have done an incredible job.

Robin's got some pictures ot the 'autopsy', which I might post if I get them. Apparently, it had no tail block, which explains the big dent by the strap pin (it has now though). Also, the original paint was under the fretboard / neck, so the paint job is almost identical to the original now. If the missus doesn't smack me round the head with it ('that was our holiday / our new bathroom' etc), I might get up to slidefest and give it a bit of air.

BTW - I generally have no problem sticking a strap pin in a heel, but I've never done it on a National!! - any advice?

Cheers

TT

Attachments:

[slidenpickit]

Hey Deuce,

Great guitar!

I've fitted a couple of strap buttons on Nationals. But, being super careful not to make a mess of it, (you only get one chance) I took advice from National (diagram below) and Mike Lewis. Mike told me to practice on a scrap piece of wood first to make sure I had the right diameter drill (no too tight or loose) for the screw. I also marked the depth of the screw on the drill with masking tape. I then put some masking tape on to the heel to mark the position for the hole and to stop the drill skidding and checked the measurements ten times. Finally, on the advice of Mike, i lubricated the screw with a bit of candle wax.



Good Luck!

[Deleted]

Most excellent advice Chris!

Do you have the screw thread / drill bit stats too by any chance?

I'll give it a go when the plum wine is not affecting my judgement.

TT

[slidenpickit]

Hey Deuce,

Strap buttons and screws do vary, hence the practice on a scrap bit of wood to make sure you don't split anything driving the screw in. Obviously the self tapping screw will cut it's own thread. To get the depth I just put the screw in the strap button and measured the bit that was sticking out of the bottom.