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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 11:51:27 GMT
Hello Bit of a dilemma... I posted a fender dreadnought to customer (£41 bid)- he wants to return it because its 'unplayable', the top is 'warped' and a 'brace has split'. Does anyone have any views on whether its reasonable for a 20+ year old guitar to have a slight warped top? Also says a brace is split - I can't think I'd have missed that before postage, but maybe I did. (edit: yeah - must have missed it - there's tape on it!). One option might be just to lower the saddle a couple of MMs? It's not unplayable IMO - I was playing it before I posted it! Cheers TT
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Sept 21, 2017 12:50:56 GMT
Jeesh - this sort of thing really bugs me.
If you want a sooper dooper guitar you either go and inspect it prior to making an offer or you ask loads of questions and ask for loads of photos so's you can make your decision on whether to bid or not.
A sooper dooper guitar will set you back a lot more than £41, too.
A 20+ year old guitar is certainly going to have some distortion on the top unless it's over a 1/4" thick and made of marine ply (bit like your customers head by the sound of it). It's called ageing and is caused by the wood seasoning and drying out.
Ask him to find you a 20+ year old Martin or Gibson that hasn't got a slight wave on the top - I bet you a shilling he can't!
Caveat emptor and all that foreign stuff......
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Post by Michael Messer on Sept 21, 2017 13:10:03 GMT
I'm with you and PD on this one. 41 quid... what does he expect, the hanging gardens of Babylon!
Shine On Michael
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Post by jono1uk on Sept 21, 2017 13:19:59 GMT
Nice quote Michael... but customer says guitar is "faulty" not "Fawlty"..... lol
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Sept 21, 2017 13:23:47 GMT
No, Jono - FORTY....
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Post by slide496 on Sept 21, 2017 13:25:04 GMT
Half of the guitars I play and you've heard had defects and were in the wallhanger, unplayable category - but I just fixed them. Lots of stuff I didn't even notice or know to look for like loose and split braces until the guitar started sounding funny
You can either try to point out your solutions first, but it sounds like he's looking to exploit the issues since he was savvy enough to inspect it for the condition of braces, accept it back and repost it "as is" or "unplayable" at higher price for your trouble -noting the defects- or take a chance with ebay who might award him the guitar and the money.
Good luck and I am sorry for your trouble.
Harriet
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Post by snakehips on Sept 21, 2017 13:27:54 GMT
Hi there ! Any buyer on ebay must accept a certain amount of risk on an item - and I mean beyond the risk of being scammed. Guitars are difficult to assess - especially if you are not a guitar expert yourself. And even if you were an "expert", there will undoubtably be someone who thinks that "expert" is not as good as another expert. A brand new guitar at £41 will be unplayable - I'm certain of that. I think it is fair play to take the guitar back for a full refund on the guitar price, excluding shipping fees, AND the buyer will have to pay for shipping back. If your item listing specifically said there wasn't any problems at all, 100% perfect, then as it isn't, then it's not fair on the buyer. Fair play. If the item said something like "This is what I have for sale, here are some pictures, as far as my non-expert eye can tell, I can't see any problems with it. Ask away if you have any reservations BEFORE bidding" then you have covered yourself fine, in my eyes. £41 is NOT a lot of money for a 2nd hand guitar - what is he expecting for £41
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Post by vagabond on Sept 21, 2017 14:39:28 GMT
Hi TT That tape doesn’t mean anything’s split, I have a Tanglewood bought (new) in 96 that came with tape that’s exactly the same as that (its an original feature) Nick
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Post by Tymus on Sept 21, 2017 14:44:59 GMT
Deuce, Looking at the pictures I'm not convinced that there are any problems at all with that guitar, other than the action looks a bit on the high side possibly but not excessive, and as you say there is enough meat on the saddle to drop it a mill or two.
If he is saying the photo with the tape is a cracked brace he is wrong. That is the intersection of the X braces, it is a halved joint which is always reinforced for strength, on quality guitars a wood cleat is glued across the top of it but on cheaper guitars (such as this) a piece of cloth tape soaked in glue is commonly used. That looks to me to be the original tape reinforcement.
As for the warped top, most (if not all) guitars with a pin bridge have warped tops to some degree. It is caused by the the strings tension putting a rotational force on the bridge, this results in a dip in the soundboard in front of the bridge (between the bridge and the soundhole) and a hump behind the bridge. As long as the braces are still firmly attached and the bridge itself isn't lifting off the soundboard this is not a fault or problem, just something that happens to most guitars!
Looking at the photo with the straight edge I'm finding it hard to see anything more than very minor warping. What I can see however is that the straight edge comes away from the soundboard towards the bottom of the guitar. Many people don't realise that a "flat top" guitar doesn't have a flat top it is in fact slightly domed (arched), this is done intentionally to give strength to the top. The unbraced top is laid on a dished mould (called a solera) and the braces are shaped with a slight arch before being glued in place on the mould to achieve this dome. The dome is usually about a quarter of an inch but can be less or more depending on the makers preference. What I think I can see in the photo is the intentional dome of the top.
In my mind I can't see any real problems with this guitar other than an awkward customer perhaps! As others have said what do they expect for 40 quid, looks like a bit of a bargain to me, but perhaps as others have said have the guitar returned to you and reimburse them if only to keep your ebay ratings good!
Good luck Tymus.
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Post by Stevie on Sept 21, 2017 14:47:06 GMT
This is precisely why I have never sold so much as a button on eBay, and by extension why I have such a junk problem!
It was advertised as an old guitar wasn't it, so it comes down to what it is reasonable to expect. As already suggested, carriage expenses (both ways) at purchaser's expense seems reasonable to me. Whenever I've had occasion to return something, provided it was correctly described, I willingly accept that the transit costs are for me to bear.
I think that there are traces of attempts at "trying it on" here. There are people like that out there I'm afraid which brings me neatly back to the fact that I've never sold owt on t'Bay.
e&oe...
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Post by creolian on Sept 21, 2017 15:16:27 GMT
In my experience, a few years ago, It became common for eBay buyers to complain after the sale and ask for money back or partial refunds. After 180 or so sales including Marshall amps, guitars and some other high $ stuff at 100% positive it happened 3 times in a row... On piddly little sales. Last one was a NOS 190$ side case for a mc motor. Sold for 32$ and the buyer was upset it had a water mark on the inside of the case. Part sold "as is" and It was clearly visible in the pics and would be inside the g#%<|\ motor if actually used on a motorcycle... Two minutes of flitz was one solution but the Twit asked for a 10$ reduction...Told him to keep it, refunded his money 100% and closed my eBay acct... Rant over. I could give advice on this but it probably wouldn't be pleasant... Grrrr. Good luck getting it sorted. J
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Post by washboardchris on Sept 21, 2017 16:57:10 GMT
Get him to send it back & relist it as a project. I have found in the past that if you say its a project you tend to get more bid's (don't know why but it seems to work) I think some people search for guitars that they can try to work on. That being said I once listed a beautiful 1930's radio tone arch top as in very good condition for it's age, very playable but with a small defect in the finish (a chip about 1/8th of an inch long & about a 1/16th wide but as I didn't specifically mention it in the listing he wanted me to pat to have the guitar refinished!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 21:03:33 GMT
Creolian and washboard are correct. Ebay is a essentially a buyers advocat...a refund is almost always guaranteed at a whimper. Either settle with him or take it back and list is as a project, needing repair.
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Post by Stevie on Sept 21, 2017 22:25:05 GMT
Can you escalate it yourself? You might bag the moral high ground in advance by claiming attempted fraud?
If you get to re-list, stating a preference for the buyer to collect and try is tempting, but do state "cash only if buyer wants to collect" and deduct the postage costs upon collection because it's a jolly jape to use PayPal, collect and then claim non receipt of goods after collection. Sorry this turned out sour for you, they're out there TT.
And don't forget to block that bottom-feeding punter...
e&oe...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 22:43:19 GMT
Don't waste your time--the guy's a chancer. He's the sort of person who'd go into a restaurant and complain his salad was the wrong shade of green.His wife probably hates him and his kids are scared of him.Give him his £41 back and move on. The vast majority of ebayers are decent people.
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