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Post by mirrormist on Dec 11, 2006 22:55:00 GMT
hi
just wondered...what makes a good slide? ...is there a science as well as an art to this piece of equipment?...or will any old bit of tube or glass do?
thanks
Anthony
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 23:55:39 GMT
There is a great deal of personal preference in it, BUT the weight, hardness and smoothness of the material are the most crucial physical factors. My preference is for a glass bottleneck, ever since I started making and selling my own, but that's my personal view. Before I got serious about slide I used a cheap chromed slide, and was worried about losing it, so made my own bottleneck and thought it was way better.
On a technical point, the slide acts as a moveable nut or fret, so there is a great deal of advantage in the slide having sufficient mass and hardness to effectively "stop" the string - if it is too light or soft it will dissipate some of the vibrational energy of the string, resulting in a shorter sustain and muffled tone. To prove the point, try using an offcut of 22mm copper pipe as a slide, and see what the sound is like compared to a good glass bottleneck. In my opinion, the commonly available Dunlop Pyrex slides are way too light - a proper glass bottleneck or custom blown glass slide has far more mass and gives you a nice sustain and clear note. Also, I find the Pyrex slides feel somewhat "plastic-y", perhaps this is a combination of the light weight and the borosilicate glass - its great for test tubes but not for slides. In terms of feel, I don't really like brass slides, as I find them a little 'draggy' on the strings, probably due to the softer material and less smooth surface compared to glass, but for lap-style playing I usually use a Stevens-style Kluson nickel plated brass bar, prefering the shape and weight over glass for that particular style.
You can play slide with pretty well anything that is hard and smooth - my party piece in a pub is to use the bottom of a pint glass or an ashtray on my Dobro, and I've seen Watermelon Slim do a similar sort of showboating, sliding with a mobile phone taken from a member of the audience! However, for optimum tone, 'any old piece of tube or glass' won't do in my view. A great deal of your success in getting good at slide is to be comfortable with the slide, so a good fit and familiarity with the slide is essential. If the slide is too heavy, it can feel cumbersome, but if the slide is too light I feel that it's not quite as esy to get a nice wide vibrato. The length of the slide is again a personal thing - you don't necessarily need to cover all 6 strings - Bryn Hawarth uses a really short slide (barely more than an inch and a quarter long) - and uses it to very powerful effect. OK, enough of my waffle for now...somebody else chip in...I'm sure Ian McWee of Diamond Bottlenecks will also be able to enlighten you..come on Ian, where are you!?
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Post by robn on Dec 12, 2006 0:02:04 GMT
I've got loads of the damm things! Made out of all different materials - glass, brass, bronze, steel, chrome, clay... They all have different tones and some work well on some guitars and others work best on other guitars. But the ones I like the most have two things in common; they fit me and they have mass.
Robn
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Post by thunderbird on Dec 12, 2006 1:57:45 GMT
As a relative beginner (1 year), I've JUST settled on a slide. Like Robn, I have a shelf full of all different kinds and I know all but two will never be used again. You name it, I've tried it! And y'know, I don't think there is any other way. You really do need to try as many different slides as possible and see how they sound and feel to YOU. As chickenboneJohn said, the comfort factor is also of huge importance. If the slide doesn't fit right or feel right, you'll never get to the point where it feels 'a part of you' and that will hold you back no end. I struggled for ages before I figured that one out. As I said, there are only two slides that I use now. The first (and the one I use most of the time) is a bottleneck I made myself from a wine bottle. It has the mass and hardness for good tone and fits my finger perfectly. The second (and arguably slightly better tone) is a Big Heart Bronze Bomber. The only trouble with it is that it weighs a TON! I play mainly in open G and find that the lower string tension gives way (especially in the lower frets) under the weight of the slide and results in fret banging/buzzing. However, in open A it sounds fantastic... for a while. After about 45 minutes of playing, my hand starts cramping because of the weight and the tone seems suddenly not as nice and I reach for my bottleneck However, having said all that, it's horse for courses and I go back to my earlier point about trying as many different slides as you can. And to properly judge a slide you have to live with it for a bit I think. Which means buying them rather than just trying them out in a shop. They are not THAT expensive and having the right slide makes ALL the difference. But remember, I've only been playing a year and there are many more experienced people on here who may have totally different views. It's all very subjective stuff! As a final note, I play both electric and Resonator with the same slide. Many people prefer a different one for each but the comfort factor is the most important thing for me and my bottleneck feels SO right that it makes the slight difference in tone less important.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 12, 2006 10:01:54 GMT
For glass slides I recommend you contact Ian McWee at Diamond Slides and for metal, King Slides from LRC. The Dunlop brass ones are pretty good, but I agree about the Pyrex ones not being very good. Personally I don't like the clay or pottery ones, they feel like flowerpots not slides!
My personal preference is a heavy long (approx 4 ounces) steel tube, this gives me the tone and sustain that I like. I have used the same slide for nearly 20 years. Prior to that I used brass gas pipe and homemade glass bottlenecks. It is only in the last 10 years that all these products have come into existence, prior to that all slide players made or found their own tool for the job. Water pipe, gas pipe, bottlenecks, bones....etc.
Try and avoid slides with any kind of imbost writing or logos on the outside surface. Slides rotate on the player's finger and anything rough in the surface of the slide will cause nasty scratchy noises.
It is important to find the right slide. It really does make all the difference. However, having said that, over the years I have seen various slides that were owned and used by legendary players and I am amazed they got such a great tone from what they were using.
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 14:05:27 GMT
When I was doing my industrial experience at University (many years ago now) I worked for a company that dealt with high temperature corrosive liquids under high pressures. They used very thick glass tubing and I cut a couple of glass slides that were just great for electric.
As I guess is common to a lot of people here I've tried many types of slide. I've seven knocking around at home at the moment. So just my personal experience to add to others here.
My favourite for the resonator has been a Dunlop thick brass slide. Good mass and a lovely tone. But I recently got hold of a Martin Simpson signature slide, chrome plated steel with a similar mass to the brass. I can't yet choose between them. The brass seems to give a lovely mellow sound, but I like the hard, smooth finish of the Simpson slide, it just glides over the strings. It is etched, but it's been laser etched and seems very smooth where it's been done. I've not found it an issue, even when I've inadvertantly had it facing the strings. It was also the cheapest option - I bought it from a company in the States and even with postage it was excellent value!
For standard acoustic I do like a real bottleneck - I've a Martin D18 set up slightly high and with 12 gauge strings (except the top E which is a 13) and it sounds great with this. Mine is from the Bluemoon Bottleneck company. I didn't know about the Diamond bottleneck company. D**n! Instead of GAS I've come over with SAS looking at the 50/50 .
I use a Moonshine ceramic for my electric, and I love it. The mass seems perfect for light strings 10/11 and with a little overdrive on the amp the guitar sings. Before that I used a Jim Dunlop pill bottle type, but can't say I would recommend it for anything other than a light strung guitar.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 12, 2006 18:55:21 GMT
This is a good thread - everyone has their own preferences and opinions. One thing I think we all agree about is that a real green bottleneck is a very useful thing to own. I like them on electric guitars too.
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by mirrormist on Dec 12, 2006 23:08:25 GMT
great stuff:) Hi Chickenbone John…thank you so much for responding…the muffled tone is what I am working to eliminate through trial and error whilst retaining a comfortable feel that would give me more control as I learn so the info in your second paragraph is invaluable to me…kind regards Hello Robin…thanks for taking the time to share your experience with me…I am trying to make a slide that will help me learn better on a national style O…I have had it since 97 without doing a lot but now I want to learn to play the music I love the most:)…purely by chance I found some picks that allow my fingers to feel the strings which is what I am used to…trying to learn with the plastic brozmanesque ones for me seemed like trying to play guitar with chopsticks…kind regards Hi thunderbird…thanks indeed for your advice as a relative beginner I guess the difficulties of first starting are fresh in your mind so I appreciate you taking the time to help me out with your suggestions. I have a green glass slide that feels nice and smooth but is way too long for my little finger at nearly 70mm and one my daughter bought for me a Robert Johnson sig slide which seems a little heavy and floppy although the length is ok Thank you Michael your advice has given me the inspiration to persevere and get it right:) . I have been trying to make one to suit…with some success as far as comfort goes but not as far as volume goes so need to do a lot more as far as weight is concerned. I have pretty much settled on an internal bore of 18mm with an overall length of 53mm for an open slide (gun metal bronze) and 57 for a bullet nose closed (phosphor bronze) slide. The walls of both are 1.75mm which seems a little light and lacks the necessary weight to get any real volume so I will try again possibly increasing the walls to between 2mm to 2.25mm on my next attempts. I have also had a go at making a steel glass slide …turned a piece of steel down and had it porcelain enamelled (vitreous)…the facilities are available to me so I will have another bash at that and see how it goes even though my first attempt was a failure lacking the smoothness of glass that I was trying to achieve. This may seem a little over the top for a beginner slide player but I enjoy doing it and I find that it’s fun to experiment. Hello allaroundman…it is interesting to know that you use differing materials for your slides to suit the types of instruments you play and how you enjoy their particular feel an nuances…thank you indeed for your excellent input Thanks all greatly very much enjoyed reading about your experience and appreciate all the advice given…great stuff!!! Cheers…I’ll get the right tone:) Anthony
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Post by Anders on Dec 13, 2006 10:59:48 GMT
For glass slides I recommend you contact Ian McWee at Diamond Slides and for metal, King Slides from LRC. Does anybody know if King Slides make smaller I.D. slides? I have one I bought several years ago, but it is just too large for my pinky. And when I contacted LRC, they said that it wasn't made in any smaller size. 16 or 17 mm I.D. would be a perfect fit for me. Anders
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Post by growler on Dec 13, 2006 14:39:25 GMT
just to say I really miss not being near or within striking distance of a music shop such as the LRC for the sole purpose of being able to look at and try different Resos out ........ also to try out different slides..... It's the only way to get one. I think I have wasted my time in ordering an expensive one over the phone from a mainline dealer. When the slide arrived, as beautifully made as it was. it was not quite right.... weight wise perfect , but just to big for my pinkie, so big I could not get my fingers round it to dampen the strings. I could have sent it back but I thouhtt ......... anyway one of my mates took one look at it and thought his wife might appreciate it in the bedroom...... dirty sod ........ regards Growler
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Post by Ian McWee on Dec 13, 2006 22:00:01 GMT
Hi chaps....yep, just logged in for a cruise around after spending more than enough time in our glass shop lately, chopping up bottles and glass tubes - with the words "get a life!" tending to ring in my ears from members of immediate family around this time of the year Many thanks indeed to all here who've graciously recommended our guitar glassware - and there's really not a lot more i can add to the mix regarding slide material recommendation....Michael & C.B.J. have nailed all of the tonal options between the different available slide material choices in one . As stated earlier, S A S is cheaper than G A S, and i personally look at the plethora of slide materials available (brass, glass, ceramic, bronze etc.) as having a kind of 'multi-pickup' guitar sound at your fingertips! I certainly get a different tone on my '33 Duolian when swapping between a hand-blown lead crystal glass slide and my genuine Craftsman 9/16" plug socket ! I think if someone new to the wonderful (crazy??) world of slide guitar asked me for any recommendations of which slide to choose, my own opinion would be to have a good, heavy, genuine green glass bottleneck, and a steel slide of some of the types mentioned previously on this thread - definitely the best of both worlds. Slide On! Ian. www.diamondbottlenecks.com
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Post by fitchmeister on Dec 14, 2006 10:32:03 GMT
Just a response to Anders query re smaller internal diameter -
I use a Jim Dunlop heavy brass slide which i have modifed by sticking some velcro (the soft side not the prickly side) to the inside with impact adhesive - so it now fits better on my pinky (ahem) - i also rounded the top over with a file and sandpaper.
One tip - dont use superglue as the excess stays wet for ages on the brass - until you put your finger in. If this does happen to you - soaking in warm water seems to sort it out - apparently ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2006 13:46:08 GMT
"One tip - dont use superglue as the excess stays wet for ages on the brass - until you put your finger in. If this does happen to you - soaking in warm water seems to sort it out - apparently "
I just had this vision of a slide class all turning up at Accident & Emergency with slides stuck on their fingers. Mind you a pleasant change from where I've seen various items stuck! ;D
Slide on
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2006 15:18:42 GMT
If you have problems keeping the slide on your finger, one simple tip is to take scrap of paper, wrap it round your finger, put the side on..there you go. For extra mojo, use a 10 dollar bill (I believe this is what Kent DuChaine does). In any event, you should be able to crook your finger just enought to lock the slide in place...after a while this becomes second nature.
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Post by Anders on Dec 14, 2006 22:08:39 GMT
fitchmeister and ChickenboneJohn,
thanks for the tip, but I've been down that route of sticking different stuff in the slide. I found that I prefer a slide that fits, with no padding. I have slides that fit me, it's just that I have a (large) King Slide, and it's just an amazing slide. Only thing wrong with it, is the internal diameter. So if they made them smaller or did custom orders, I would buy another one in a minute!
Oh, and I prefer brass slides or metal slides. However, I've been wanting to test out one of those Diamond Bottlenecks for some time now.
Anders
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