Cutaway tricone vs. std tricone/resorocket

[Deleted]

I am starting to think about saving up to buy a new National. There are no Nationals available for me to play within any sort of driving distance. I was curious if there was a sound difference between the standard National tricone and the cutaway tricone. I would prefer the reach of the cutaway but not if it had some sort of negative effect on the sound. I was also curious about the sound of the Resorocket vs. a tricone. Unfortunately the National site has no sample recordings of the Resorocket.

Thanks very much.

[robn]

Hi txslide,

There is a clip of the Resorocket on Keb Mo's web site.

www.kebmo.com/

Scroll down a little on the right of the home page and you will see a choice of download formats.

Robn

[Michael Messer]

Hi txslide,

Welcome to our forum. Your question is one that I believe is about personal taste. If you are new to this subject you should get to know the instruments before making a decision. Try as many as possible. Whereabouts in the UK are you?

My personal preference would be a non-cutaway standard Tricone. They were designed by John Dopyera to create a certain tone and volume and I do not believe the original design has been improved on. The Reso Rocket is a beautiful guitar and is becoming a very popular model. It would not be my choice of instrument. But if I had to have a National Reso-Phonic guitar with a cutaway, I would choose between the Radio Tone Bendaway and the Reso Rocket. Having played both, I prefer the Bendaway. But that is just my taste and I love wood-bodied National and National Reso-Phonic guitars.

Shine On,
Michael

[Deleted]

Thanks for the replies. Michael, I am from that country that everyone hates these days..the U.S. I live in Texas..Texas is a huge guitar state but I guess Nationals
aren't popular. There are a few dealers but nobody seems to actually stock them.

I suspected that the cutaway might detract from the sound a bit. Thanks for the opinions!

Robn thanks for the link!

[Michael Messer]

Hi txslide,

now I understand your name TeXasSlide! I am sure there are some good stores in Austin.

Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

They don't seem to stock Nationals though!

[LouisianaGrey]

We're having a similar discussion about regular acoustics on another forum. To my mind the issue isn't really whether there's a difference in the sound, it's whether a guitar with a cutaway actually sounds bad. And the odds are it doesn't. Unless you're much cleverer than I am you're only playing one guitar at a time so no-one, including you, can make a proper comparison between the sound of your cutaway guitar and the sound of the same guitar without one.

If you're the kind of guy who sits in his bedroom all day and plays with himself (as it were) then maybe the difference in sound is significant. In practice for a musician who plays to an audience it doesn't matter as long as the guitar sounds OK. They're not listening for every nuance of tone, they're listening to the performance. When I hear Phil Keaggy play his beautiful Olsen I think "What a good tune" or "What a great player". I have never, ever, thought "That guitar would sound better if it didn't have a cutaway". Pick the one you can give the best performance on and don't worry about subtleties of the sound. They all sound good, just different.

[tark]

Any differences in sound of a wooden guitars due to a cutaway are often discussed in terms of the difference in vibrating area of the top and differences in stiffness of the body caused by the introduction of the cutaway.

My opinion is that these differences aren't significant because the upper bout of a wooden guitar doesn't vibrate much and contributes very little to the overall sound. I reckon the change in body volume and therefore body resonance is more significant. Cutaway versions of wood acoustic guitars should have a smaller soundhole than their non-cutaway versions to exhibit the same body resonance. Normally, they don't.

Resonator guitars are a bit different since it's the cone/s that vibrate to produce most of the sound. Vibration of the top of the guitar body is even less likely to have a large effect on the sound than in a conventional wooden acoustic guitar. Also the Dopyera brothers in their original designs seem to have been aiming at maximum volume and cut-through, rather than best bass response. The F holes, round holes, basket grilles etc. on resonator guitars do not seem to have been tuned in size to flatten the main cone resonance. The body resonance normally seems to be above the cone resonance and that resonance will be higher for a cutaway body.
However you can tune the body resonance on a cutaway down to the same as that for a non cutaway model by simply blocking off some of the soundholes. Don Young has told me that the effect of doing this on a Reso Rocket guitar can be quite dramatic.

[Michael Messer]

Interesting thoughts & comments on cutaway guitars. I am a traditionalist when it comes to National & Dobro guitars, as I do not believe the original designs can be improved on.

Shine On
Michael

[tark]

Hi Michael,

In a way I kind of agree with you, the National and Dobro guitars do what they do so well (at least the good ones do) and they have been doing it for so long they have an established identity, almost a spirit. They are perfectly what they are.

On the other hand musical instruments have been evolving over thousands of years, even the resonator guitar designs evolved over the relatively short time the Dopyeras were designing and making them. First there was the Tricone, then the Dobro and the single cone. Its a tricky question, when does a particular instrument change so much it becomes a new instrument.

Personally I like to experiment and the great thing about resonators is that you can make changes to the design which are easily reversed. Fiddling around with these guitars keeps me happy and I've learned a lot about them in the process. I'd recommend everyone playing these instruments to just try temporarily blocking the lower soundhole and see if they like the difference.

[Anders]

admin said:

Interesting thoughts & comments on cutaway guitars. I am a traditionalist when it comes to National & Dobro guitars, as I do not believe the original designs can be improved on.

Shine On
Michael

Michael,

you obviously haven't seen this guitar... ;D

- Anders

[Michael Messer]

Hi Anders,

I have now!!!! ....I was obviously wrong



.....................................................................................

Hi Tark,

In the past 15 or so years, since the new generation of makers have been building National style guitars again, I have seen many different innovations. Some have been very clever and some have been ridiculous, but all have been trying to improve on the original designs. While I have seen some instruments that are as good as the originals, I have not seen anything better than the originals. I could list some examples and comparisons, but I am not prepared to name and shame anybody. Over my 30 or so years of collecting & playing resophonic guitars I too have tinkered & fiddled around with them....cover up sound holes and other ideas, but nothing I have tried or seen can in my opinion improve on the original design and set up. I could not count or list the amount of resophonic guitars I have seen & played and I still maintain that the original designs are the best.

Shine On,
Michael

[Deleted]

The cutaway is simply there to allow players to play up the neck. Obviously National themselves went to a 14-fret neck on some models I would assume because guitarists wanted to play up the neck easier. That's the only reason I would want a cutaway. It sounds to me as if it won't detract from the sound too much if at all.

[Michael Messer]

Hi tXslide,

I am sure you would be very happy with a cutaway National guitar. I have been playing 12 fret Nationals for a very long time and I am very used to them. Even 14 fretters feel odd to me. So much of this is about what a player gets used to.

Keep in touch,

Shine On,
Michael.

[Lee Holliday]

Interesting thoughts & comments on cutaway guitars. I am a traditionalist when it comes to National & Dobro guitars, as I do not believe the original designs can be improved on.

Michaels comments from earlier post.



Michael,

just to put the cat amongst the pigeons Tim Sceerhorn builds probably the best Dobros around, using soundposts and baffles which neither were incorperated in the Doperas patent docs!

The only constant in life is change!

Regards
Lee.