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Post by Bottleneck John on Jun 8, 2024 15:23:33 GMT
Folks, I'm at it again.. Had to go back and try something else. The double sided tape I used to stick both pickup and metal strip to the pan and T-bridge works ok, but on the T-bridge the strip had started to come lose a little bit as I did suspect it would with such a small area of tape between the two surfaces (and the strong pull from the pickups pole on the metal strip..). The pickup sticks perfectly with the magnets pull and the tape, it won't move at all. So now the metal strip is superglued to the bridge.. This also brings a little more of a gap between the pup and strip. ![](http://www.bottleneckjohn.com/Tbugtest.jpg) Now it'll be interesting to hear if there's a tonal difference, output in volume, feedback etc etc.. I played the pickup at a gig the other day and it works but not as I wish it should, hence this new try. The treble strings are fine, the bass strings sound a bit "hollow" or not quite "there", haha!?! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Don't know how to precisely describe the tone but we'll see if this new installation does a better trick. Back with a report asap. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) PS. I'm not using a preamp of any kind which I'm sure most of y'all do? I'll try that too..
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Post by nowthen on Jun 8, 2024 17:40:34 GMT
I just ran mine through the Bose L1 with the Fishman platinum pro preamp and with a little bit of tweaking got the guitar to sound spot on like it's self, but louder. Plenty of volume and no feedback issues. The more I experiment with it the more I like it. Its clear, clean and the balance between bass and treble strings is perfect. I've had three different people listen to it and they agreed. It's good without the preamp but with, it's bloody marvelous.
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Post by twang1 on Jun 9, 2024 9:03:09 GMT
I remember that when I got a magnaphonic installed in my tricone there was a huge difference in sound depending on the gap between pickup and strip of metal. Too much gap (I seem to remember about 3,5 mm) and it sounded trebly and dull; at about 2 mm it sounded excellent! Just a couple of mm or less counted! It should be interesting to determine that with this new pickup, I guess. Frank
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Post by leedscitystompers on Jun 10, 2024 20:58:43 GMT
Martyn from Washboard Resonators here. Finally chiming in. Simon fitted #2 prototype on Tuesday. It’s in my absolutely gorgeous 1930 Tricone (Named Sylvia after my gran that was born in 1930). I had a play at home and found it very nice if not a touch heavy in the bass and low mids. TBH not a bad thing for a Tricone as they can be a touch thin (especially roundnecks). Was dead chuffed and with a little EQing I could get a pretty accurate sound. Took it to a Leeds City Stompers pub gig (me on guitar plus double bass and 1930s Drumkit) on Sunday and straightaway noticed that when soundchecking I couldn’t get close to the volume I get from the highlanders (single or tri) without serious feedback. Luckily I have a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ box on my gigging pedal board (as should every acoustic guitarist) and can flick the phase switch or notch filter to take away most of the feedback but still had it throughout the gig. Even rolling off full bass on it as I was with a double bass player it was still a touch flubby and was getting mushy in the mix with the bass player. There was a constant ‘wolfing’ or ringing in the low mids (say 250 to 800 hrtz) I added extra treble to compensate and give some ‘cut.’ One band mate suggested the gig was “like playing in a goldfish bowl” due to the low mid ‘ringing’ between thumb picked notes. So far I think it sounds nice at low volumes or reinforcing the acoustic sound but compared to my highlanders I wasn’t getting the natural sound which then gets small tweaks to suit the room. I was doing major EQing and even then getting something that I was putting up with rather than being confident behind. I have some opportunities this weekend to run it out and see. I will also A/B with my highlander equipped Tricone. Maybe do one set on each. I think what MM and Elmar have achieved is excellent. It’s an honour to test it and try in difficult scenarios. Perhaps placement or the instrument itself could be adding these weird extra tones. I may also have an opportunity this week to set up a PA in a big space and spend a while trying it properly. This could really help me get a feel for how to treat the pickup in a PA. There is a video I captured at the gig (for a possible eventual YouTube of the pickup journey). I shared a snippet to instagram for MM and as I said to him. It sounds pretty decent in the phone recording but in the room there was a washy extra overtone thing happening. Like feedback wanting to happen. I really want this system to work. The world needs it and I’ll be happy to do all I can to try and bring this to market. I make no mention of the pickup on the IG post of the pickup as we’re at prototype stage and I think the pickup should be promoted when MM and Elmar are 100%. Here it is… www.instagram.com/reel/C8DEDZuM7vk/?igsh=MTdua2pyNXU5emU0eQ==
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 11, 2024 7:49:14 GMT
Thank you to all of our testers for your "feedback", it is very much appreciated. We could not do this without you.
Please continue to report in to us while Elmar and I digest what has been said.
Shine On Michael
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Post by bonzo on Jun 11, 2024 8:45:00 GMT
Couple of comments I hope you find useful. Installation was straightforward and will be improved further by the changes already made. Virtually 'out of the box' on modern tricones it would seem and nothing that you haven't allowed for on vintage instruments. The main problem being the domed screw head. I personally think it's easier just to replace it with a countersunk flat head rather than complicating things with washers and things. The magnets and adhesive tape work fine. The gap from feedback already received seems to be between 2-5 and 3-5 mm so there is some room for minimal adjustments. How necessary this would be becomes subjective I feel. Basically like most things in life 'keep it simple' is often the best way to go! I think you guys are onto a winner. Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by snakehips on Jun 11, 2024 10:45:47 GMT
Hi all,
Well, I played my 1931 Tricone on Sunday for about 3 numbers, at a pub gig (Leith J&B Festival), in a noisy environment.
On those tunes, Prof Scratchy was play his Nationals (one has a Dave King / Benedetti magnetic stick on pickup, and the other has an old Teisco Starway magnetic pickup). Our third band member was playing harmonica.
We all played through our Bose L1mk2 PA system, with 2x B1 bass modules, and a directly into a Tonematch T8S digital 8-channel mixer. I did need to set the trim level (the mixer channel's input preamp) quite high (8 0ut of 10), but that wasn't unexpected or a problem, but that was enough to match levels with all the other channels.
I think I had my guitar channel set to "Acoustic with mag" pickup setting. (I'll need to check)
I found the sound similar to tests at home - the treble was good with a slide, the bass end was a bit distant/ill defined, and mid range a bit lacking detail.
Unlike Bottleneck John, I didn't have any issues with feedback at the volume we were playing, which wasn't low, but felt I could have gone louder without issue, had I needed to.
I think the pickup is good so far, but had an overall bass-y, distant sound rather than, in your face, immediate and perfect in all note ranges (high to low). That perhaps is far too much to hope for, perhaps ?
I should have more time now to experiment further - and I'll try the extra wee magnet at some point too. I DEFINITELY need to try a preamp or two, between the guitar and my PA system though - as that might really change/imporve things a lot.
I am not quite sure how different the pickup construction is to a Highlander Magnaphonic, but externally, they both resemble a single-pole, magnetic pickup, with coil around the magnet. Are they that different in construction/d & design, as they sound very different ?
Will keep testing/experimenting and get back to y'all.
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Post by elmar on Jun 11, 2024 11:25:09 GMT
Thank you to all of our testers for your "feedback", it is very much appreciated. We could not do this without you. Please continue to report in to us while Elmar and I digest what has been said. Shine On Michael Fully agree to Michael! I don't want to walk into a wrong direction so all findings on the prototypes are very welcome. All previous thoughts mean nothing when facing the reality :-) - regarding feedback issues: I wound the coils very loosely. Maybe a tighter fit by decently increased string tension nakes it less prone to microphonic effects? Or even wax potting? I already tried that with two coils. - regarding bass response: I think the double-stick pad is necessary to reduce vibrations otherwise being induced from the pan.
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Post by leedscitystompers on Jun 11, 2024 14:13:14 GMT
Interesting what Elmar has said. The microphonic nature could have been my issue. The pickup sitting on a pad or being wax potted could make it less prone to picking up sympathetic vibrations from the instrument.
Looking forward to more testing this week.
This weekend I’ve got an arts centre which is barely amplified and a festival with a couple thousand people, no sound check (just a line check) and a huge PA so think that is where I’ll see how it really copes in difficult circumstances.
It’s great to have the privilege to try and see how these work.
I genuinely believe that between us all we’ll develop the greatest range of resonator pickups.
Exciting times!
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Post by elmar on Jun 14, 2024 12:01:53 GMT
Hello there, this T-bug project is really entertaining, with ups and downs, challenges and adaption. That's life :-)
Here is an update. After having digested the feedback regarding feedback in noisy environments, I ran squealing tests with my poor amp and ears. The result is that the T-bug are now wax potted, in a wax cocoon. Plus, the hollow sticky patch is also recommended instead of the washer mount to further isolate the bug from internal noise.
Samples are under way to get a direct comparison to the initial test bugs. We are not there yet, let's hope to make it to the next step soon.
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Post by leedscitystompers on Jun 17, 2024 10:28:44 GMT
Took the new pickup on the difficult festival stage yesterday (Lorryback stage, huge loud PA, playing in a field, no soundcheck - only a line check) Much better for the washy low mid tones I was getting on last weeks gig that I’ve tracked down to the tailpiece making sympathetic vibrations. Foam has cured this. Still prone to feedback when compared to a highlander and myself and the sound guy had to do extreme EQ. He screen shotted his EQ curve for me. He took off loads of low end and raised top end above 3k all the way to 20k by the full amount (+12 db I believe). I put a bit of video up on instagram of the start of the gig plus when I kicked in the boost on the fishman (+3 db) to solo (you’ll see I get feedback with the small bump of clean boost). Thought this might help MM hear it. Phone is onstage and the sound guys are just using side fill monitors for us. I knew this would be as difficult a gig for sound as is possible unless one was playing in a huge glass building! My phone ran out of memory so I only got about 3 songs in. I think this 2 minute video captures the nature of starting a gig with no sound check and you just have to get your head down and entertain the crowd. All I did was a quick EQ with my Fishman in the monitors and then what you hear on the video link below is what we got when the PA was then switched on. It was by about 4-5 songs in the sound guy had carved the EQ’d to a reasonably clear sound that worked in the mix. I’m told a new wax potted prototype is on its way to me. Guess we need to try the next one first but so far I’m finding it overly bassy and with an unnatural mid that also misses sparkle. I’m now wondering if it’s the gap between the magnet and pole piece that’s causing extra bass. Others on the forum report the opposite. Sound clip below… LCS at Ilkley Food Festival - www.instagram.com/reel/C8SrowAMtgZ/?igsh=YTJpYTB2ZGQ5dXlx
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