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Post by pete1951 on May 18, 2023 9:54:59 GMT
I have been stringing guitars ( both mine and for various shops) fo 50 years and on all non-slotted headstocks have always wound my strings down the post. My main electric is an old Burns with a very wide head. This has always lead to tuning problems. I have installed a graphite nut ( this helps a little) I put graphite under the strings on the zero frets ( sometimes I put a strip of PTFE tape over the nut and zero fret) . All these things help but tuning is still not as stable as a Fender headstock shape. So here is one final ‘hack’ that has also improved tuning...... I have strung UP the m/head post instead of down! This reduces the downward string angle , the head is still too wide but I don’t want to change the head shape or drill more holes ( I have done this to another guitar and regretted it straight away) Pete This would probably be good on other wide headed guitars,( especially on the G and D strings) but care has to be taken to seat the string on the post to ensure the string doesn’t slip down or jump off the top! You could get a similar effect by using m/heads with extra long posts and then winding ‘ correctly ‘ down the post
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Post by bonzo on May 18, 2023 12:07:12 GMT
Hi Pete, hope this doesn't fall under the teaching your grandmother to suck eggs type of advice but here goes! The tuning posts are capstan type so there shouldn't be a problem with the strings popping off. When I first got zero fret guitars my research led me to understand that the nut was a string guide and as such didn't need to be as exact as normal as long as the strings were positioned as you like them on the zero fret. Also I noticed the strings only had a couple of turns on the posts. Perhaps next time you restring try putting a few extra turns perhaps? I believe that helps hold tuning. Hope this advice helps, I'm only passing on advice I've picked up on the forum, a good deal of it from you Pete! 😉 👍🎸🎶 Good luck with your gig!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by pete1951 on May 18, 2023 13:09:33 GMT
I never have problems with strings holding tune because of inadequate ( or the more come problem too many ) turns around the post. The Burns problem is friction in the nut. The sharp angle because of the wide head is the main problem ( traditional Les Pauls can suffer to a lesser degree with this problem,and most custom makers use a smaller head angle and often a narrow head like PRS) I can’t do much about the head layout, but winding up rather than down lowers at least one of the angles . As to ‘popping off’ , one more wind on the post and there is a danger the string will slip off the top of the post, winding down you never have this problem as the ‘capstan’ shape tries to keeps the string in the middle of the post, I try to put 2 1/2-3 turns on a post as this seems to hold tune best. More can cause slipping, less can lead to strings snapping where the leave the post hole. ( locking tuners that recommend no turns at all I would only use if the whammy bar is used a lot)
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Post by zero on May 19, 2023 4:42:20 GMT
Sorry but i ain't buying this. Basic string winding is one wind goes over the top and the others go under the bottom. Something your not doing in the photos. Yes the nut and the angle of the headstock play a part but so does winding the strings the right way from the start.
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Post by pete1951 on May 19, 2023 6:16:42 GMT
As I said this is the FIRST time I have ever strung a guitar like this. Normally ( probably as you describe) I take the string over then under, usually crossing over it’s self to hold firm. I do a lot of string bending and (so far) the strings are holding well. Pete This is how most of my guitars are ( and will continue to be ) strung. Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2023 8:30:27 GMT
Sorry but i ain't buying this. Basic string winding is one wind goes over the top and the others go under the bottom. Something you're not doing in the photos I was going to keep out of this thread because everyone has their ways of fitting a set of strings, but when I read your post stating your way of fitting a string as BASIC STRING WINDING FACT and THE CORRECT WAY, I just couldn't hold back. Your way is your way, but it is not the rules of fitting a string. That, as we say at MM HQ, is total bollox. If I average 100 sets per year (which is actually a conservative guess), I have fitted something in the region of 4500 sets on my own working guitars. Then if I factor in fitting something in the region of 5000 sets onto MM Guitars in recent years, plus a a thousand or so from other times and places in my life, we are looking at something heading towards 11,000 sets that I have fitted, and I have NEVER done what you seem to state as THE CORRECT WAY that is BASIC STRING KNOWLEDGE. I have never had my strings slip out of tune on any of the thousands of gigs I have done, and I have never had anyone complain that their strings on my MM guitars are slipping out of tune. So perhaps you could change your approach by saying..."this is my preference for fitting strings" Most busy professional guitarists that I know would laugh at this conversation, and would probably refuse to even discuss it, because they just wind their strings onto their guitars and play. As my old Grandma used to say...." fitting a string is fitting a string!"Here's a couple I just photographed.... ....I hope I put them on correctly 😵💫 Shine On Michael
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Post by pete1951 on May 19, 2023 9:32:30 GMT
Putting strings on neatly ( as Michael does) is the thing to do, though I don’t think you need as many turns as he does. If you use lots of winding then ( like MM) keep them tight and wound down the post.
Like Michael I have restrung many guitars, often owners came in complaining that their guitars don’t keep in tune. Many will have untidy loosely wound strings with lots of turns around the post. This is one reason I only put 2-3 turns around guitars I restring as I think it gives better stability (especially when string bending)
BB King would wind almost the entire string around the post ( though in his later years he may have had a guitar Tec) and he did more bending than most, with no problems. So there is no ‘right’ way, but there are several wrong ones or rather things you can do that are bad practice. If my ‘up wind’ method is wrong I would have expected tuning problems but I think tuning is better than it was. As I said this is an experiment to try and overcome problems caused be the quirky design of my Burns Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2023 10:33:43 GMT
You're right Pete, I don't need that many turns, but I like doing not that way because I always have! ....and because I like the look of lots of turns.
Shine On Michael
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Post by pete1951 on May 19, 2023 11:31:58 GMT
One occasion where lots of turns is better is Michael’s Tele Style neck , pictured above, without those windings the brake angle would be very shallow (especially on the top 2 strings) and there might not be enough pressure on the nut ( old style Teles and Strats have a string tree to give more angle, new ones sometimes 2 ) . Some Fender style heads need the extra to stop strings popping out of the nut on the lower strings too.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2023 12:06:16 GMT
Actually the tuners on my Telecaster are not standard tuners, they are Sperzel® tuners that are made so the angle is correct without needing clips to hold the strings down. Dave King built this guitar for me and the tuners came with it. Apparently the instructions say to only wrap once or twice around the post, but old habits die hard and I've been stringing this guitar for 23 years this way. They are good tuners, there is no play and they work fine. They know me so well now that I just call out to them "open G please" and they turn on their own.
Shine On Michael
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Post by pete1951 on May 19, 2023 12:55:04 GMT
Yes , just noticed they are stepped ( short ones fo the top 2 strings , medium for the next 2 and tall for the last.) Even with these tuners I would probably put a couple of extra turns to be on the safe side. Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2023 13:40:29 GMT
Yes , just noticed they are stepped ( short ones fo the top 2 strings , medium for the next 2 and tall for the last.) Even with these tuners I would probably put a couple of extra turns to be on the safe side. Pete "Stepped"...that's the word I was looking for! Shine On Michael
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Post by mitchfit on May 19, 2023 17:23:45 GMT
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Post by Michael Messer on May 19, 2023 18:24:26 GMT
Mitchfit, I'm with you there. I use an electric screwdriver with a Planet Waves drill bit string winder attached to it. I use it all the time and haven't changed a set of strings without it for a few years now. I even take it on the road to gigs. It's a brilliant tool, especially for ageing wrists and fingers. It takes me no more than five minutes to change a set of strings. Shine On Michael
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Post by leeophonic on May 20, 2023 17:08:15 GMT
Breaking as opposed to car Braking.....
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