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Post by bluesdude on Apr 29, 2018 12:47:49 GMT
I tried the Martin monel strings on some of my guitars,I liked the tone well enough but what I didn't like was the increase in fret wear!
Kenny,,,
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 29, 2018 13:23:18 GMT
Kenny, was that a noticeable side effect? If that is a problem, I think people should be careful about using them.
I am waiting with interest to test some monel strings and out of respect for Pickers Ditch and others on here, I will do so with an open mind, but I don't really see that they can be much different to good quality nickel-wound strings. I may completely change my opinion when I have tested them.
Personally speaking, I don't see the problem with phos/bronze wound strings. I have used them for 40+ years and so have most of the National guitar players I know. Dobro players used to prefer nickel-wound strings, but in recent years they have gone over to phos/bronze. When I play old style Dobro in the Brother Oswald and Josh Graves styles, which I love to do, I still use phos/bronze because they have more punch and last longer.
It is not the strings that makes a musician sound like an old timer or a new timer, it is the playing.
I look forward to testing some monel strings and I will do so with an open mind.
Shine On Michael
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Post by bluesdude on Apr 29, 2018 13:48:35 GMT
I really believe they did increase fret wear Michael, I used Newtone nickels for years on my Duolian with not much noticeable wear! but just one year! always on the frets that had a capo on it! A friend of mine had the chrome wear right of her favorite slide using them. I wish my findings were different because like I said I really dug the tone from them and the longevity,,,,,,,,,
Kenny,,,,,,
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 29, 2018 14:14:00 GMT
Kenny, that is very interesting and also worrying.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is from Wikipedia:
Monel is a group of nickel alloys, primarily composed of nickel (up to 67%) and copper, with small amounts of iron, manganese, carbon, and silicon. Stronger than pure nickel, Monel alloys are resistant to corrosion by many agents, including rapidly flowing seawater. They can be fabricated readily by hot- and cold-working, machining, and welding.[2]
Monel was created by Robert Crooks Stanley, who worked for the International Nickel Company (INCO) in 1901. Monel alloy 400 is a binary alloy of the same proportions of nickel and copper as is found naturally in the nickel ore from the Sudbury (Ontario) mines and is therefore considered a puritan alloy. Monel was named after company president Ambrose Monell, and patented in 1906. One L was dropped, because family names were not allowed as trademarks at that time. The name is now a trademark of Special Metals Corporation.
It is a very expensive alloy, with cost ranging from 5 to 10 times the cost of copper and nickel, hence its use is limited to those applications where it cannot be replaced with cheaper alternatives. Compared to carbon steel, piping in Monel is more than 3 times as expensive.
Monel is a solid-solution binary alloy. As nickel and copper are mutually soluble in all proportions, it is a single-phase alloy. Compared to steel, Monel is very difficult to machine as it work-hardens very quickly. It needs to be turned and worked at slow speeds and low feed rates. It is resistant to corrosion and acids, and some alloys can withstand a fire in pure oxygen. It is commonly used in applications with highly corrosive conditions. Small additions of aluminium and titanium form an alloy (K-500) with the same corrosion resistance but with much greater strength due to gamma prime formation on aging. Monel is typically much more expensive than stainless steel.
Monel alloy 400 has a specific gravity of 8.80,[5] a melting range of 1300-1350 °C, an electrical conductivity of approximately 34% IACS, and (in the annealed state) a hardness of 65 Rockwell B.[6] Monel alloy 400 is notable for its toughness, which is maintained over a considerable range of temperatures.
Monel alloy 400 has excellent mechanical properties at subzero temperatures. Strength and hardness increase with only slight impairment of ductility or impact resistance. The alloy does not undergo a ductile-to-brittle transition even when cooled to the temperature of liquid hydrogen. This is in marked contrast to many ferrous materials which are brittle at low temperatures despite their increased strength.
Musical instruments Monel is used as the material for valve pistons or rotors in some higher quality musical instruments such as trumpets, tubas and French horns. RotoSound introduced the use of Monel for electric bass strings in 1962, and these strings have been used by numerous artists, including Steve Harris of Iron Maiden, The Who, Sting, John Deacon, John Paul Jones and the late Chris Squire. Monel was in use in the early 1930s by other musical string manufacturers, such as Gibson Guitar Corporation, who continue to offer them for mandolin as the Sam Bush signature set. Also, C.F. Martin & Co. uses Monel for their Martin Retro acoustic guitar strings. The Pyramid string factory (Germany) produces 'Monel classics' electric guitar strings, wound on a round core. In 2017, D'Addario string company released a line of violin strings using a Monel winding on the D and G string.
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Shine On Michael
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Post by slide496 on Apr 29, 2018 15:04:45 GMT
There's a point in the expense, but Newtone may have connections for a testing batch from one of their resources. When I looked in the US it was sold for industrial use by quote request only. There are several different grades.
The sector where I think I've read consistent interest is in on flat tops - possibly due to Tony Rice - and Jazz players on archtops, vintage blues guitar players who use the D'daddario nickel set on their guitars and looking for an alternative. I haven't read or heard of so far of fret wear complaints or cautions regards them, but its worth checking that aspect out.
I tested martins awhile back but preferred the pbs.
H
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Apr 29, 2018 18:39:10 GMT
Interesting comments regarding fret wear.
I have a couple of guitars which have been strung up with Martin Monels for about a year, both probably having about the equivalent of an hour / days playing.
One is my "Skip Dive Special" with brass frets and the other an old "The Michigan" with what I guess are nickel alloy frets.
Both played with a mix of finger style and slide and I have not seen any undue wear on frets, glass slides or bronze slides yet.
I'm not a pro gigging guitarist, just a home twanger.
However, I gigged as a bass player for many a year using Rotosound Jazz Bass 77 flatwounds which are Monel 400 wound on one of my Precision basses with no major fretwear experienced at all compared to another which was strung with stainless roundwounds. In fact one of my basses still has the same set of strings on it which were fitted in 2001, still staying in tune and sounding good. Yes, I play lightly and I'm lucky enough not to have acidic sweat so that may have someting to do with it, too.
Just my own experience but all input positive and negative re. monel is much appreciated - keep it coming.....
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 30, 2018 12:19:29 GMT
This morning I have had a chat with Neil at Newtone about monel strings.
Neil said that he completely agrees about running tests before actually selling any, and that he would have done that without my input. So we are in good hands. Neil knows what he is doing.
We are going to move forward and run some tests. This may involve asking some forum members to try them. Let's wait and see what happens when Neil makes some.
I would only be confident after testing them for a few hours a day for couple of weeks.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Apr 30, 2018 12:42:23 GMT
Thank you Michael and Neil! Sounds good to me.
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Post by snakehips on Apr 30, 2018 13:13:04 GMT
Hi there !
I would be happy to test some sets. I've got some Nationals with new fretboards and frets that would thus not involve any unnecessary fret wear harm to originals. Plus, I'd be interested in trying them for two Dearmond-equipped acoustics.
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Post by lonelyjelly on Apr 30, 2018 18:20:30 GMT
Happy to be a guinea pig too :-) A lighter set could be good for the dread!
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 30, 2018 21:21:21 GMT
Please let's do this one step at a time.
First of all, Neil has to order and make some sets, then he and I will try them, and then we can send a few out for testing.
I am keeping a completely open mind and of course I respect everyone's opinion and enthusiasm, especially Pickers Ditch, as it was him got this off the ground. But being perfectly honest I am not sure about monel strings at all. I have a feeling that I might get shot down for this comment, but I do think it might be a passing fad that has swept around the globe. I have seen things like this come and go before. Still, I promise to give them a fair test and to get some opinions from others.
Thanks for the offers and for so much enthusiasm.
Shine On Michael
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Post by slide496 on Apr 30, 2018 22:41:35 GMT
It might be a good time if its a fad.
If it's a current fad there might be a bit of money to be made for the development and to defray manufacture cost, a chance for sales with the current interest, Newtone might pick up some steady users, string dealers might be interested, and if the fad dies down Newtone is ready for the occasional request.
Lawd Lawdy, Harriet
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Post by Pickers Ditch on May 1, 2018 7:05:53 GMT
Please let's do this one step at a time. First of all, Neil has to order and make some sets, then he and I will try them, and then we can send a few out for testing. I am keeping a completely open mind and of course I respect everyone's opinion and enthusiasm, especially Pickers Ditch, as it was him got this off the ground. But being perfectly honest I am not sure about monel strings at all. I have a feeling that I might get shot down for this comment, but I do think it might be a passing fad that has swept around the globe. I have seen things like this come and go before. Still, I promise to give them a fair test and to get some opinions from others. Thanks for the offers and for so much enthusiasm. Shine On Michael Sounds like a sensible way of working to me. I'm hoping that the round cores and the monel will give the lower tension and retain the sound. As Old Lodge Skins said, "Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn’t." My fingers are crossed......
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Post by lonelyjelly on Jul 24, 2018 6:50:05 GMT
Pre-ordered a couple of sets
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Jul 24, 2018 7:20:12 GMT
So have I Michael will be along in a minute, I'll wager a shilling........
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