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Post by Mark Makin on Nov 28, 2008 9:36:38 GMT
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Post by Mark Makin on Nov 11, 2008 12:32:35 GMT
Hello David /"Archie" Your guitar was made in 1955. It is a National New Yorker. These guitars appeared in the late 30s and had a sunburst finish. Memphis Minnie is most associated with them. By 1953, they were blonde finished. The vinyl covered pickup on your guitar was first used around 1952. They were a bit outdated by the time yours was made. The New Yorker had two knobs fitted into the top of the body by 1956. Yours are missing because from 1953 to 1955, they were mounted on the black (missing) scratchplate. This had stairstep edges on it and you can see the light stain marks left by the shape to the right of the neck on the body top. People often mistake the New Yorker for the California. The colour is the same, same pickup and similar scratchplate. However, the California is a slightly bigger and fatter body and also has bar markers on the neck, not dot markers as yours has.
The New Yorker disappeared in 1958. Hope this is some use. Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Oct 30, 2008 13:39:51 GMT
Hello Keith. I should guess around July 1954 from the serial number. Post a pic and we'll try and tell you what model it is Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Oct 23, 2008 9:18:04 GMT
Hello again sbj In 1971, this guitar was issued at $82 - hardly a fortune! Unfortunately, they come from the first period of Japanese copy guitars when the understanding and quality of instruments was not good. I would suspect your estimation of a few hundred dollars is correct. There may be a certain collectability value now - after all- even these are pushing 40 years old! Don't get carried away though with the "National" connection - technically, there isn't any! Here is a copy of the 1971 catalogue page. Not much more to say really. Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Oct 22, 2008 9:53:28 GMT
Hello sbj Your guitar is (as you correctly surmise) a model FE 199 and was listed as an "acoustic-folk/electric grand concert guitar". It was made by a Japanese company in 1971 who acquired the "National" name after the closure of Valco in 1968. They were marketed back into the US by a company called 'Strum and Drum'. The FE199 has a spruce top with maple sides and back. In the catalogue, the colour is described as 'honey top with cognac sides'.
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Post by Mark Makin on Oct 7, 2008 13:55:05 GMT
Hello Sbj I'm afraid we'll need a picture
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Post by Mark Makin on Sept 27, 2008 14:10:27 GMT
An interesting historical fact - the earliest known Style 2 square neck tricone #133, one of Rudy Dopyeras original handbuilt prototypes does not have real frets - only maple strips inset into the rosewood fingerboard.
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Post by Mark Makin on Aug 21, 2008 15:47:52 GMT
Hello Barry It is a Larson Brothers "Dyer" Harp guitar.
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 25, 2008 12:27:30 GMT
Hello Sarah As Colin explained, this is not an exact science. It seems that there are always exceptions to the rule. This is why I specifically said that your instrument was "...NEARER to 1954/55 than 53." I wish it was possible to tell you your instrument was made at 11.30 in the morning of June 23rd 1953 but it's not. Dating is usually achieved with a combination of serial numbers and specific features on the instrument that are known to come from a particular time. In your case, the pickup appears on other Nationals from 1952 -1954 and the scratchplate appears on Supros from 1954. I have enclosed the catalogue page from 1954 for the "El Capitan" which, as I said, is also the same instrument (Just a different headstock shape). I think you have discovered all the facts necessary yourself - you have a family connection to the end of 1953 with the instrument and it also says "1125" inside. That is about all there is to say. Like I said at the beginning - it's a National New Yorker variant from around 1953 to 1955. Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 24, 2008 11:11:48 GMT
Sarah I've been studying these instruments for around 40 years. What answer would you like me to give you? If you have different ideas don't let me stop you believing what you like. best wishes
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 23, 2008 15:46:25 GMT
Hello Sarah and Colin This guitar looks to me to be a version of the "New Yorker". Around this time it might have been advertised as a Model 1120. The vinyl pickups are usually found on electrics around 1952/55. This scratchplate was used mostly on the Supro version of this instrument - The "Supro El Capitan". It almost looks identical in finish and fittings to the "El Capitan" except that your instrument definitely has a National headstock not the pointed Supro type.
So I would say that it is a slight variant of a usual National New Yorker . I would suggest from your serial number that it is nearer to late 1954/55 than 1953. Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 6, 2008 11:36:35 GMT
Incidentally, I just thought I would put these images into this thread to keep it all in one place. These are the pictures of Mike Coopers Tricone and Dave Peabodys Single cone that were featured on another thread some time ago
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 6, 2008 11:31:38 GMT
Hello Bill I remember after the first brass tricone body, Alan made a body shell for Keith Bannion up on Merseyside somewhere. This eventually surfaced as a nickel plated instrument with "KGB" on the headstock which was overlaid with sterling silver. The body was heavily engraved (rather too much in my opinion!) with masses of foliage and bunches of grapes. I did see it on an album sleeve a year or two later. Was it maybe this one you saw Bill?
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 5, 2008 12:17:59 GMT
Speaking personally of course Bill, at first listening my gut reaction is the last one - SM58beta. It sounds fuller and brighter to me. But at 60 years old - it's a long time since I heard a dog whistle!!
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Post by Mark Makin on May 27, 2008 20:43:39 GMT
Hello Tark I know I'm going over old ground - but from my perspective of enjoying and researching National guitars for 40+ years - there is no such thing as a NEW National. My reasons for rescuing this instrument, as I have said elsewhere, is because so few of them have surfaced (5 to date). When you consider I have been surrounded with 1920's, 1930's Nationals in wood, german silver, brass and steel since 1967 - why would I have a NEED for a completely unrelated "New" instrument that bears no relation to an Estralita except for the name? The same reasoning applies to Mike Lewis's restoration of Michael Messers Havana 12 string. In that particular case it is UNIQUE.Would Michael have been better served by buying a new 12 string and putting the Havana in the bin?
Michael Lewis has been a close friend of mine since 1971. He started his interest in Nationals after seeing mine and together we have discussed, measured and fiddled with Nationals for 35+ years. It has always been valuable to both of us when we are in a position to turn something up that is rare, that we can not only rescue it but learn from it. Michael had never seen an example of EITHER of these instruments until we found them for him to look at.
We have learnt a number of things about the construction of this particular rare beast - it is an auditorium sized body, the sound is different, the sides are constructed differently from wood that is only half the thickness of a Trojan. The wood is Mahogany ply, not maple etc. etc.. This process is nothing to do with economics but our continuing lifetime involvement with and investigation of Nationals.
To partially agree with your premise - there would most certainly be no economic value whatever in rebuilding a Trojan, for instance, because if you find a wreck of an instrument today - there will certainly be a mint example along tomorrow at a very reasonable price - the world is not short of Trojans!
Consequently the premise for this "restoration" programme is that it really only applies to instruments that MUST be saved.
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