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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 28, 2009 8:41:34 GMT
Having been graphic designer and catalogue designer for Document Records for a number of years - can I just mention a conversation I had with Gary Atkinson (Document MD). He reckoned that the Document Catalogue was "20% great Country Blues, and 80% screaming women and manic preachers!!" I suspect such electrifying tracks as "Keep Movin" by the Standard Quartette recorded in 1894 would not be high on many peoples 'In-Car' CD playlists ( you would think your CD player was broken!!) Gary sometimes said to me that some of these titles do not sell in double figures in a decade!! Joking aside, what Michael and others say is correct, Document records now has over 850 CDs which are now the greatest repository of early 20th century American music. Many universities in the Southern States of America see the value in owning the complete collection in their libraries for obvious reasons. As a casual listener, it is a daunting prospect but it DOES contain most of the best country blues and gospel in existence. In some cases, taken from the only known 78 disc in existence. You MUST tread carefully, again as Michael says, even if you like Tampa Red - 20 albums of 25 tracks each is a bit much!
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 14, 2009 8:06:59 GMT
I'm glad I had a classical education or I'd have lost you by now stuart!
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 7, 2009 18:44:57 GMT
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 7, 2009 16:21:06 GMT
Hi Gouranga
From 1967 to 1969, Mosrite (who then owned the Dobro brand name) made some wood bodied 12 string resonators. They were ALL spider resonators (no national type cones)
The basic model was the D12 known as the COLUMBIA. This came in maple or mahogany finish. It also came with a surface mounted pickup under the strings above the resonator. This, logically was called the D12E.
It was also possible to buy them set up (rather strangely) as square neck steel guitars. This was the same guitar as before but was now called the D12S LEXINGTON. This came in the same two options and was also available as an electric (known as the D12SE.
Confusing eh!
They originally sold for around $400 in the 60s. I don't think they were particularly desirable - they certainly ain't now!
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Post by Mark Makin on May 16, 2009 12:02:27 GMT
Might I add just a little bit of information from history to this discussion. The last Style O made by National before the war was what collectors now call the 'Spade Head' . It is a 14 fret body with a large Gibson-type headstock. These instruments occur quite regularly and are generally more reasonably priced than other earlier fourteen frets. The Reason? They look just as pretty as other Style Os and are built with the same pre-war quality BUT they have an extraordinarily heavy neck in relation to the body. Very few people keep them for very long - hence they are constantly shipped around. They do NOT suit players well at all as the neck presses down on your left hand almost restricting lateral movement. Has anyone tried the old party trick holding a long handled broom with two hands in the hollow between your first fingers and thumbs. Now try moving your hands together! Impossible. The hand with the lightest weight on it moves easily, the other cannot move. If you add extra weight to the fingering hand you will restrict its movement. Using a National or any heavy resonator is, as Robin says, a case of learning the balance points and matching this with your own comfort. Ravi Shankar was always perplexed about the time required to learn the sitar. It takes TWO lifetimes, he used to say, - the first lifetime learning to hold it!
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 29, 2009 13:57:23 GMT
If you set up a free account at somewhere like photobucket.com you can load the pictures there. You then have a URL address for the picture to place it into Michaels forum - the pictures are not held on the forum which is why you can't post them direct. When you go to the message board on the forum you will see an 'image' icon. This will give you [/img] on the message. Place your URL address directly between the two boxes and it should work. Best of luck.
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 29, 2009 9:37:40 GMT
I agree with you. When the book was written (now 16 years ago!) I think we were all (including Bob) very shiny-metal centric. These wood models from other manufacturers were seen as just marketing opportunities as the National business grew. At the time we would only tolerate products directly from the Dopyera Brothers so the only wood body that was worth consideration was the wooden Triolian! I know in recent years that Bob is a fan of Kay built instruments, the El Trovador and (particularly) the Aragon. I think we only knew of one or two Estralitas at the time of writing and I don't think those had been personally verified. As I explained to various people at the beginning of this thread who seemed to think it was an expensive waste of time to restore my Estralita, it is a very different animal to the Trojan and I have to agree that if it were similar to a Trojan, there are so many Trojans around, why would I waste my money?
As Bob knows well, he was a fan of the metal bodied (preferably Tricone) Dopyera resonators almost exclusively. In the early days of researching these things, Bob regarded the 'National Steel' as one of the last great examples of American craftsmanship married with the first attempts at mass production. In this respect, I agree with him entirely. Subsequent products from National up through the 1930s do NOT exemplify this same attitude. You can make the distinction that after the move of the National Company to Chicago in the mid 1930s, ALL instruments, 14 fret Style Os, wooden bodies, electrics, archtops were products off an assembly line - the 1920s instruments all have a craftsman antique feel to them.
I have to say that I was not as black and white as Bob was. I always had a secret love for everything that the company threw out even up to the 60s - wacky Glenwoods and Supros included!
Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 28, 2009 15:32:34 GMT
Nice to hear from you. The Estralita was made by Harmony as a 14 fret replacement for the El Trovador. The El Trovador was originally built by Kay, but was discontinued by that company in 1933. It was taken over by the Harmony company with slight differences - scale length, f hole position etc. The main difference was the addition of the fingerboard pattern with the various shapes and the star. This was devised by Harmony for use on their first archtop guitar made in 1933 - the Cremona. When, National shifted to 14 fret instruments in 1934, the El Trovador vanished and the Estralita was the result. They made a deep bodied instrument and added extra space at the bottom end to keep the large sounding 12 fret sound. It was devised as an 'Orchestra' model for dance bands. Most people confuse them with Trojans but they are very rare. At present the list is: N004 - black ESTRALIDA logo N005 N017 N026 - red ESTRALITA logo N041 N079 - red logo N126 - red logo -Chicken feet plate N141 - Chicken feet plate There is some confusion over the name Estralida / Estralita. The first instruments have a black and gold logo with the name spelt as ESTRALIDA (or at least we think so because N005 and N017 have logos missing!!) Mine (N126) has the red logo like yours with the Correct?? spelling. As I mentioned further back in this thread, mine has a chicken feet cover so it must be somewhere in late 1935/6. If they have only reached N126 by this time from 1934 - then there can't be many more than a couple of hundred at most. They sold for $55 when they were new, a Duolian was $27 and a Style O was around $65. Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 25, 2009 10:54:30 GMT
Hello Bert These mandolins were finished exactly the same as Collegian guitars i.e. "Maple" which is a sort of textured grained beige, cream coloured paint. They were originally issued in the Supro range in around 1938 to 1940. Later, they were put back in to the National range so this would date to around 1941 or 1942. It has a serial number in the G range which is the series that straddled the pre-war post war period. They were some of the last instruments issued under the National Dobro banner and the first ones made by Valco. The black enamel "National" logo plate was also used across this period. The "graphics" is obviously hand painted but seems to be a very competent copy of the Triolian Hula girl from around the 1928 period.
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 18, 2009 15:19:32 GMT
Hello Frank The first Duolians arrive in mid 1930. They change to 14 fret necks in late 1934, solid headstock by 1937 and finally disappear in 1940. During 1938 the same instrument with a ring of holes on the coverplate instead of the diamond clusters, painted yellow/maple colour is issued as the Supro Collegian. In late 1941/early 1942, the same instrument is issued as a National Collegian. AFter this, guitar production is halted for WW2. They don't make resonators after the war
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 8, 2009 18:43:54 GMT
Hello Jimmy This is the guitar I mentioned at the end. It is technically a Harmony built 'Rosita'. These are usually regarded as Nationals but they rarely, if ever, carry a logo.
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 8, 2009 8:35:23 GMT
Hello Jim I can't see your picture but from what you descibe it sounds like a Harmony resonator probably a Sovereign. These were built alongside the Harmony made National Havanas and are very similar. Does this look like yours? I know yours have 12 diamonds and these don't but they used many different coverplates. I have seen more of them WITH 12 diamonds than without. The ones pictured in the advert are more unusual. Best Mark If the f holes are more pointed it may be a Harmony built Rosita. Both of these guitars feature the cheaper 'budget' version 8" cone.
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Post by Mark Makin on Feb 14, 2009 15:15:34 GMT
Hello Gerry I've had these gauges pinned on my wall for years - haven't tried them though!
Tuned down 2 steps to C 35/60, 26/48, 16/38, 12/28, 18/18, 14,/14
Tuned down 1 step to D 32/53, 24/42, 16/32, 10/24, 16/16, 12/12,
Leadbellys gauges 14/70, 19/48, 19/38, 22/22, 19/19, 14/14
Dell'artes recommendation 14/64, 19/46, 16/36, 25/25, 18/18, 14/14
Don't know if these are any use Gerry, I'am afraid it didn't mention which brands to choose.
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Post by Mark Makin on Jan 20, 2009 11:01:16 GMT
Nice little demo Fred. Seems like you had another successful little trip to Mike L !! Best Mark
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Post by Mark Makin on Jan 5, 2009 12:51:40 GMT
Hello everyone I'm in Carlton - 2 miles east of NOTTINGHAM
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