Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 3:39:42 GMT
Rik. My sarcastic tone has nothing to do with the duco finishing process. Sarcasm is always directed toward a person or persons. (My original statement was not directed at you. I did not know anything about your work at the time). Regarding my work on the duco, it is just something I have put a few hours into, with no high expectations. I have worked on hundreds of guitars as an amateur and collector, and have several original duco duolians. So, there is really nothing for me "to work out". I am fortunate that I dont have to make a living out of anything I do. But I will try to complete a duco finish when I can move the process to a controlled, ventilated environment, as I stated in my original post.
|
|
|
Post by oldmanblue on Mar 4, 2017 8:15:43 GMT
At last a site with a grown up attitude to dealing with things,no toys out the pram etc,well done people.
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on Mar 4, 2017 10:06:06 GMT
Hi again !
I did see previous posts about that material and had looked at that webpage when someone had left links to it before - but I couldn't remember who had talked about it. From memory, I wasn't overly impressed with the product as far as it imitating the duco finish, like on a Duolian. Fairly good but no where near the same.
So I actually thought Fredcapo had come up with something different to that and was saying (with sarcasm) that his stuff was WAY better than the stuff on that website - and so I was impressed with his efforts and the time he must have put into this AND sharing it with us. I thought he was being sarcastic at Rik too - but I only read through the post once. If I misread it, I apologise.
Rik is right though - until one can confidently do full guitars with this finish, multiple times with consistent results, let alone intended artistic effects, I don't think anyone can claim to have mastered the Duco finish. I don't believe Fredcapo was claiming that though. I do think though, he was showing that we us mere mortals (!!!) might be able to do this ourselves, eventually.
In the face of possible criticism/disrepect, Rik still found it within himself to give health/safety warnings. Right on, guys !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 13:39:36 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 14:28:28 GMT
Hi again ! I did see previous posts about that material and had looked at that webpage when someone had left links to it before - but I couldn't remember who had talked about it. From memory, I wasn't overly impressed with the product as far as it imitating the duco finish, like on a Duolian. Fairly good but no where near the sames ! Clearly, the Jergen product seems to have the critical ingreduents discussed in the historical info...naptha and nitricellulose lacquer judsing from the fumes. The results will vary depending upon thickness and hiw applied, temperature, humidity, the surface texture of the base. To me any artistic result seems to be more a matter of PROCESS than anything else. However it was not my intent to disparage anyone doing this work.
|
|
|
Post by pete1951 on Mar 4, 2017 16:10:40 GMT
Getting a finish as good as Rik will be something to aspire to. I will try to get some and follow Fredcapos advice. PT From my memories of school chemistry crystals grow best if the solution they are in dries very slowly, so maybe a sealed box, possibly with with a pot of thinners in it to slow evaporation and let the crystals grow. ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 16:43:50 GMT
Pete, Yes agreed. It seems that the edges of where i painted it on, and thus thinner layer and drying quickly, developed rough triangular crystals, while the center developed the blossoming forms. There imay be significans to your implucation re solvent... I washed off my first atrempt that I dried with the hairdryer, just to prove that heat is bad for the process, and there may have been some resudual lacquer thinner on the surface, helping the growth.
Good luck in getting the stuff, and heed the advice re dangerous fumes. I am always juggling a dozen or so projects so may not get back to this for a month or so.
|
|
|
Post by pete1951 on Mar 4, 2017 19:58:51 GMT
I also have several thing , not all guitar related I must get on with. So there may be someone else on the forum who will get there first. (If they say how best to do it, so much the better.)! PT
|
|
|
Post by pete1951 on Mar 5, 2017 9:24:03 GMT
Another random thought.... Some crystals grow best at low temps. (Ice for one) so could the best enclosure to dry a Duco body be an old 'fridge ? PT
|
|
|
Post by bonzo on Mar 5, 2017 11:42:05 GMT
Could work,but wouldn't like to think what it could do to the guitar! Best wishes to you all, John
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 11:53:37 GMT
Pete, We have had a cold snap here, and last night it was around 55 F in my unheated basement. I tried another section on the body. Here are some observations, based on a simple 10 minute experiment;
A horizontal surface area brushed on developed 50% nice blossoms, but also 50% triangular rough crystals. The vertical surface area developed probably 80% blossoms. So perhaps some flowing or surface tension action helped the blossoming. I dont think extreme cold would help. I think the absence of dry, convective heat is more important.
Overcoating existing crystals produces dark undesirable effect...does not seem to melt in like laquer. Implication is you must do the entire guitar or front/back, etc in a single pass.
I believe also that some treatment of the metal will help, like lacquer thinner or retarder.
But again, I am going to wait until i get setup in a section of my garage, with active ventilatio/filtration before i do any more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 4:16:26 GMT
Thanks for the interest in this thread. Again, I want to apologize for my poor attempt at some humor...i did not intend to offend anyone. If you poke around on the internet, there have been several folks who had success with the Jurgen product to some degree to replicate a duco. That being said, Rik's product is very fine and I guarantee you would want one of his over any amateur attempt.
|
|
|
Post by bonzo on Mar 6, 2017 8:41:02 GMT
Well said Fred.
|
|
|
Post by creolian on Mar 8, 2017 3:07:53 GMT
newb here... Not looking to replicate a finish method but I remember this stuff being sold at pet stores for use on Aquariums for background painted on the outside! Haven't seen it for a while and if it contains naphthalene I can understand why. Even if I was outdoors I'd be using a suitable vapor cartridge filter in my mask. On the other hand I've been dealing with a moth infestation and maybe next vacation I'll leave some out to evaporate as napthalene is the active ingredient in mothballs. I'm being serious... be careful ! edit: added a link to naphthalene poisoning medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002477.htm
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on Mar 8, 2017 6:24:48 GMT
Hi again !
Well, that will be why the secrets to what to use and how to apply a Duco paint finish seemed to disappear with the original National company. No one doing the paint finish National probably lived long enough to pass on the secrets to the next generation !!!
|
|