Growin some duco crystals

[Deleted]

I have been planning to try my hand at finishing two old steel bodies with crystal lacquer. The wife is away for a week so now was my chance to open up some lacquer in the basement without getting yelled at... i have to warn its a pretty bad smell even with active ventilation...so I will move this project to the garage as soon as the temperature gets to 50 F or so.

Tried some brown on the bare steel...just brushed it on. First tried dryinq with hair dryer, and the crystals did not form (as expected). Nice thing is it just can be washed off with lacquer thinner. Reapplied and let it air dry, and results look pretty neat...

[Pickers Ditch]

Fred, I'm still experimenting and can't get anywhere near that finish.
What is it that you are using?
Is it that JURGEN INDUSTRIES stuff? jurgeninc.com/Crystal-Glass-Paints/
PD.

[Deleted]

Actually quite suprising how easy it was to do this...put it on thick in the right environment and it grows nicely...but Yes, and just hold your nose as you slather it on... the hardest part of the job was opening the can with the shipping clips... I decided it was so easy, i will suck down a few Newcastles before I complete the job.

[Pickers Ditch]

Fred, that looks great.
I've been trying to get my hands on that Jurgen stuff this side of the Atlantic for yonks and I can't find any.
I've asked Jurgen direct to send some but they won't "...to much hassle with transport regs. and stuff."
So, if any of you nice people want to bring some over for me on your next trip to the UK in your checked baggage as a "commercial sample" I would be eternally grateful.

[Deleted]

I dont know anything about shipping stuff...wiuld a liquor bottle go thru?

But yes, it seems to be coming out nicely. The relatively cool and damp temp helps.

[rbe]

Sorry Michael, But HEY FRED, THAT COMMENT YOU MADE WAS RUDE! You know the guy who does frosted duco finishes participates on this forum.

[Michael Messer]

I hadn't seen that post until just now.

I agree that it was not in good taste.

We, the resonator community, all have great respect for Rik's beautiful work with duco finishes, and for his knowledge and restorations of National & Dobro guitars.

I would not like to lose Rik or Fred as you are both valuable members of this forum. I am happy to delete the relevant comments, including this one.

Fred, just 'like' this post and send Rik a PM, and I will remove the necessary comments.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

NOTE to readers. I made a previous comment that included a tasteless (yet clever) caricature of how I see many craftsmen, etc in the guitar restiration business, that someone took issue with. I quickly deleted it.

That comment sadly applies to probably 90% of the luthiers and other craftsmen I have given, or tried to give work to. Just this month have had 2 of 3 craftsmen not even showing the courtesy to return an email request. But feel free to delete the comment and any others.

[rbe]

Michael, please leave the post. It represents Fred's point of view and he is entitled to it. I was allowed my response.
I appreciate your support.

[Deleted]

If rbe is Rik...no offense. Its my way of using sarcasm, but let Michael make the decision. Its his board and I respect his judgement as moderator. I have discussed this stuff several times and two or three folks have shown interest, so this was the promised follow up.

[Michael Messer]

Thank you Rik for your response.

The most difficult thing about hosting a forum is knowing when and when not to police it. If I delete the comment, it kind of defeats the idea of an open forum, so I will leave it.

I would be most grateful to everyone if we can continue this thread about Fred's first attempt at Duco-ing a metal bodied guitar and not about the politics of the forum.

I hate it when there's bad vibes on here, it should be an enjoyable place to visit.

Thank you

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

I made a tweak to the comment, actually providing ALL of the crucial knowledge I have on the subject of Duco...

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Rik Besser has worked for a LONG time to find out those "secret formulas and techniques" to produce a finish like the original ones on Duolians and B-finish Triolians.
I firmly believe he has a right to protect his hard work to provide himself a business and earn a living off the back of it. (And not be ridiculed for that).
It is entirely up to him to not share his knowledge - and my respect for him and his hard work in this field is stronger than my desire/need to know how it is done.
I would love to know how it is done some day - and I do hope he passes on this knowledge to someone, eventually.

On the other hand, I am amazed at the picture of a duco finish Fredcapo has produced.
I assume he has managed that independantly, and thus not stealing any knowledge from Rik - how could he ? !!
So if someone else has also started to work out the process on their own back, good luck to them.

Is that gold duco ?

[Deleted]

Well here goes my sarcasm again... i have used a product that has been and is currently for sale for many years...probably used by many girl scout troops creating wind chimes for fund drives, that I out of curiosity tried, at home, in my spare time ( precious little of that). It appears to be very similar to the "duco" finish that I have read about on the internet that has been reinvented over the past decade by several folks. What I showed for my test was absolutely effortless, so sorry if that hurts someone. So I dont think National hired artisans to paint their cheapest guitar product. If people want to cast my actions as hurting someone else, what should I say?

OK end of provoked rant. snakehips i mentioned the product name on this forum several times over the past several years.

As I said, applying the priduct to the bare metal yielded an acceptable look. I dont know how National prepared the steel. I have several primed cover platesfrom NRP and I have not tried the product on them. And I am unsure about long term durability. It cannot be topcoated as far as I have seen. But the tins i painted a few years ago seem to be fine.

[rbe]

Thanks Snakehips.

Fred, keep at it. I do think it is a bit premature for you have established such a sarcastic tone about this. But then maybe it will all work out for you. I have always found that the more arrogant and assuming I am about this finish, the less success I have with it. It is always changing. It is, after all, based on crystals, and crystals have always been thought to be spiritual.

You have a bit more testing to do. Painting an entire body and coverplate would be a good step. Doing it more than once might be the next. After you've done that couple of times, take your latest attempt and hold it up to a picture of one of Snakehip's vintage Duolians. See if you've got it down. If you almost can't tell them apart, then be as sarcastic as you like. And if you aren't there yet, try to be a little less assuming. The crystals are reading you.

And by the way, don't do this in your basement. Naphthalene and nitrocellulose are nasty and they hang around.