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Post by jimbogubson on Jan 31, 2016 16:34:22 GMT
Hi folks, I'm new here. I just wanted to share a problem I've had with my M1, I'll try and keep it brief and to the point. i bought a used M1 from a well known shop for my 40th approx 3 years ago. The guitar was 2 years old when I bought it. After 3 months I noticed a small area where the laquer had bubbled, almost like a rash. Within a week or so the area grew larger and appeared in some other places on the guitar. After talking to national, they were happy to refinish the guitar under warranty and the shop covered the cost of shipping back to the states. After a massive customs cockup where my guitar was nearly confiscated, I finally got it back after its 3 month trip back to the U.S. of A. after around six months a very small area of the laquer on the neck started to bubble which has slowly but surely started to grow until the present date. It's been kept in its case always and not really left the house much at all since I've owned it. i noticed one for sale on a forum around a year ago which showed similar signs of the laquer rash. has anyone experienced this problem before? I'll try and post a couple of pics. The first being when the problem started the next are the current pics of the neck laquer lifting. Cheers!    |
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Post by jimbogubson on Jan 31, 2016 16:42:08 GMT
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Post by Stevie on Jan 31, 2016 16:52:07 GMT
You need to put "img" and "/img" each enclosed in square brackets, the first at the beginning and the second at the end of each of those URLs.
e&oe...
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Post by jimbogubson on Jan 31, 2016 17:21:36 GMT
You need to put "img" and "/img" each enclosed in square brackets, the first at the beginning and the second at the end of each of those URLs. e&oe... Thanks steve! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 17:25:07 GMT
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Post by jimbogubson on Jan 31, 2016 17:34:48 GMT
Thanks for the link Graeme. Will have a good read through that. Seems a bit strange that they'd take my m1 back under warranty and then re-spray it with the same dodgy laquer??? |
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Post by Michael Messer on Jan 31, 2016 17:38:30 GMT
Hi Jim,
Welcome to our forum.
Ouch!!! That looks nasty.
We have seen similar problems before. In fact only recently there was a thread about one that had to go back to the US for a refinish. The owner of this particular one ended up paying his own shipping to and from the US to Europe.
They obviously have a problem with their lacquer, or their lacquering process.
My advice at this point would be to talk to NRP and to Dave King (NRP's official UK repairer). In your position I would not return it again to NRP, I would insist the problem is corrected here.
It is obviously nothing that you have done to cause this to happen, unless it has been damp, or over-heated, which I from what you have said, I doubt.
I wish you luck, it is horrible when these kind of problems happen. Keep us posted with your progress.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by jimbogubson on Jan 31, 2016 17:48:32 GMT
Thanks for the reply michael. I've kind of buried my head in the sand watching the problem grow, as when it was sent back to the usa previously, it caused me a lot of stress due to the customs debacle. I'll give them a shout this week and see what they say. Getting it refinished over here would definitely be a more preferable option. Or as mentioned in the other thread, a relic job! Will keep you posted.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jan 31, 2016 18:27:44 GMT
Jim, if it was my guitar, I would get it refinished here with a proper gloss lacquer. It would look great.
Good luck with sorting it out.
Best wishes
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Jan 31, 2016 19:34:24 GMT
Looking at the pictures above I do not think that is definitely a lacquer problem.
The lacquer/paint has formed a continuous film on the surface as it should do and has been stable for a number of years from what is said.
However, it looks like the lacquer/paint film has delaminated at the base coat interface which, to me , indicates either the base coat preparation was not what should be, or that there was an oil /grease (an antifoam?) leaching out of the base coat or oil leaching out of the wood.
Knowing that NRPs are manufactured in California I'm not that surprised that there are problems.
California law insists on minimizing the use of solvents with high VOCs which leads companies along the route of using aqueous paints and varnishes.
These aqueous jollops are not as good or tolerant as the "good old" solvent based mixes, thus much more care must be exercised with surface preparation, application and drying temperature, humidity and time control.
Bottom line is - oil and water don't mix, certain lacquers are incompatible, cleanliness at all stages of the process is king.
My advice would be to take it to a local reputable sprayer who understands these things and can do the job properly using solvent based paints and lacquers.
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Post by beefheart on Feb 1, 2016 16:22:53 GMT
Hello jimbogubson. Comisserations on your problems from a concerned forum as I bought an M1 last month. Probably not relevant in your case but I remember the manual that came with the guitar said (I'm paraphrasing here) not to use guitar stands with vinyl holders - replace with cloth. I use hercules stands and I'm hoping the foam stuff on them is not vinyl. Can anyone confirm - please.
Cheers,
Peter
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Post by jimbogubson on Feb 1, 2016 16:48:39 GMT
Hi beefheart, from previous experience, the foam rubber like material on most stands and hangers can affect the finish. I've only had this happen on a martin acoustic. My electrics have been hanging for years with no side effects.
I did have my M1 hanging up for a short period but I wrapped a cotton cloth around the guitar hanger, so no related problems there!
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Post by Stevie on Feb 1, 2016 18:06:40 GMT
I've had no problems with my five Hercules stands over about 3 or 4 years, but curiously the sprung grips that adjust the heights of the stands have all started to exhibit that sticky feeling. I don't "get" how they can market a product guaranteed not to affect the instrument's lacquer, yet still put suspect bits that do not come into contact with the guitar on the stands.
I also have 8 wall hangers (it's great here!) from (I think) K+M and I've had no problem with those over the same time frame.
This is a case of YMMV and my strong advice is to keep a wary eye on your chosen product as well as any product marketed with what may well be snake oil and feldegarb. Caveat emptor people...
e&oe...
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Post by beefheart on Feb 1, 2016 19:00:41 GMT
Thanks jumbo and Stevie. I will email Hercules and see what they say about the foam. Dunno if it makes a difference but my stands are floor standers.
Peter
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Post by slide496 on Feb 2, 2016 0:44:53 GMT
I think the sticky parts may be rubber, if so it means the rubber is deteriorating-I have other stuff with rubber that's happened to.
I use Ultimate Genesis GS-200 stands that the parts in contact are wrapped in velvet and also I cover a long 5 guitar rack with cloth so I havent had issues yet but I check. Not sure if they are still made.
My sympathies with regard to your troubles with the lacquer jimbogubson!
Lawdy lawdy,
Harriet
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