Robert Johnson and Beyond

[Dessery]

Hi all

Related to the other Robert Johnson turnaround thread. I thought I would share a link to Little Toby Walkers Robert Johnson and Beyond which I recently bought and have thoroughly been enjoying working through, some great stuff in there and as well as showing you for to play the songs, he also shows you variation licks to help you improvise your own versions.

www.littletobywalker.com/robert-johnson-and-beyond.html

Enjoy

Thanks
David

[Deleted]

Mickeyz raised a point about RJs singing. Without wishing to go off thread, I've pondered on this a couple of times:
Skip James early on in his career had a similar vocal style to RJ, but later in his (60s) career seemed to have a more 'modern' soulful vocal style. Which I prefer...
Would RJ have sounded 'better' with a more 'modern' soulful vocal style?
TT

[obrienp]

That Toby Walker tuition sounds interesting but I still haven't managed to work my way through the two Robert Johnson tutorials I have already. I have Scott Ainsley's and Tom Feldmann's tutorials. Both are excellent but Tom Feldmann's shades it for me because he pretty much covers everything that RJ recorded in the 3 DVDs. The extra bit that Toby offers is the improvisation ideas. Wish I had known before I bought the other 2!

I need to try to control this RJ obsession and try to learn some other player's styles. Even found myself with GAS for that Gibson 1928 L1 Tribute they have brought out just because it is like the guitar that RJ is holding in one of his photos! £2,600! I think I need therapy!

Slide on, Pat

[slide496]

Nov 7, 2015 11:17:58 GMT @deuce said:

.
Would RJ have sounded 'better' with a more 'modern' soulful vocal style?
TT

IMHO don't think so - I think he had the "it" factor with what he naturally had in terms of tone, pitch, timing and style to judge by listener response.

[Pickers Ditch]

Oh no, the controversy starts again

[Michael Messer]

.....aren't we a few years out of touch with this subject. For the past six years we have had Robert Johnson's recordings from beautiful clean masters at the correct pitch.

Anyone into his music should have a copy of this....

Sony Legacy Series - The Centennial Collection - Robert Johnson.

I have enjoyed listening to and studying Robert's music for over forty years and it still gets me just like it did all those years ago.

Shine On
Michael.

[Pickers Ditch]

Right on, Michael.
Exactly - hence my post - meaning "Oh no, please not again".

[Deleted]

Nothing to do with altering the pitch etc - not my post.
I prefer the later Son House work to the early work, as well as Skip James' later work. But with Skip James, there's a big difference in his later vocal style too, which I prefer.
If RJ had recorded in the 60s, I think he would have had a different sound, like the other old players who did had.
Hypothetical sure, but it would have been fantastic - and maybe better?
TT

[obrienp]

I know what you mean Tone. If RJ had survived I am sure his style would have developed. He would have gone electric like Muddy did and possibly embraced soul when Blues became less popular.

[Deleted]

I know, I know... I just can't help myself. Sorry guys.

Anyway, Skip James sang in a falsetto, which fits in with a whole tradition of Appalachian singing... One of the most haunting songs I've ever heard was an a vocal/harmonic piece from an old Smithsonian collection I had back when I was in my early teens. Just a guy singing falsetto, punctuated by his harmonica. Extraordinarily. I can still hear it today.

SJ's vocal style most likely changed because, when he was rediscovered as an elderly gentleman (and apparently had to relearn how to play his own material!) his voice probably couldn't hit those same notes.

RJ's isn't singing in a falsetto. As great as the Centennial Collection is, it just brings out all the more how awful the vocal quality is.

[Deleted]

Nov 8, 2015 10:35:38 GMT @mickeyz said:

Anyway, Skip James sang in a falsetto

This isn't falsetto

This is falsetto

[Deleted]

Okay, fine. By "falsetto," I mean he "consistently and deliberately sang up into the upper register of his voice, often reaching into a full-fledged falsetto."

That work for you? Sheesh.

The point is, on Skip James' recordings, his voice always sounds like a natural human voice.

[AlanB]

And so the saga goes on.....

Attachments:

1The Business of Robert Johnson Fakery.pdf (86.35 KB)

[gaucho]

Obrienp, I read somewhere that the little Gibson that RJ holds in that one pic was a photo studio prop guitar and not his. The article further speculated that he probably played a less expensive guitar. The photo studio prop theory makes sense as that was a popular thing in those days. As an example, think of the photo of Mississippi John Hurt holding the National square neck Tricone in the Spanish position and pretending to fret it. Don't know if it's true, just regurgitating what I've read. I was in a Guitar Center in Florida the other day and they had an original 1930's L1 that I played for awhile. It sounded really good, but not 6K good!

[obrienp]

Hi Gaucho,

Did I start that hare running? My short term memory is dreadful these days! I have read other views that RJ probably couldn't afford an L1 and it might have been a Kalmazoo or similar that he played on the recordings.

On the subject of L1 Gibsons: I had a significant birthday last year. On an impulse I decided to buy myself a dedicated blues acoustic as a 60th present to myself. I went to Guitar Village in Farnham, which has a large stock of high end acoustics (quite rare this side of the pond) and tried one of the Gibson L1 Blues Tributes (after all,it looks like the guitar in the photo of RJ). I was decidedly underwhelmed, especially @ £2,600! I then tried a Keb Mo BluesMaster: much better but the neck was too much for my little fingers. Next was an L00 Standard, which was nice (and much cheaper) but not that special and has quite a narrow nut. The Nick Lucas was beyond my budget. The American Eagle is like a junior J45: great guitar but not really the dedicated blues guitar I was looking for and the same 1.72" nut. After that I was handed a Martin CEO-7: lovely guitar and beautifully made but typically Martin complex sound, with loads of overtones. It would make a lovely all round folk/blues guitar but not what I was looking for.

At this point, no doubt sensing that the lock was going back on my wallet, the sales guy produced a Collings Waterloo. I was hooked straight away and its a lot cheaper than the L1. I probably would have walked away with one there and then but they only had the black ones in stock and it has to be the vinatge sunburst for me. I tried both the ladder and x-braced versions. They both sound great and it is really hard to know which to go for. I guess the ladder is period correct but very specialised and the x-brace is more modern and more versatile. I also decided that the traditional massive V neck was a bit too much for the little fingers, although not as difficult as the Keb Mo for some reason. Well after a 5 month wait and quite alot of swithering between ladder and x-brace, I am the very satisfied owner of a vintage sunburst x-brace with slim modified v neck. I don't know if it sounds like RJ's guitar on the recordings but IMO it sounds fantastic for blues/Americana. I had an Anthem SL put in it and that is pretty good too. The Waterloo is more expensive than an original Kalamazoo KL14 but without any of the issues that tend to come with a guitar of that vintage, and with modern playability and the Collings guarantee.

I am not sure what the moral of my tail is: probably keep away from expensive Gibsons: you might not end up buying one but you will probably end up spending more money than you wanted to on something else! Fortunately I had 5 months to raise the balance and managed to sell 3 guitars in the interim.

Slide on,
Pat