understanding the voice as an instrument...

[bod]

These days I try to sing, it doesn't come easily to me but for a lot of the stuff I'd like to play singing is so central that the playing starts to drift around without it, so I'm trying.

Some days it seems to work better than others, but for the life of me I can't quite work out what I'm doing differently on these different days...

I know there's a bunch of stuff out there on the internet and loads of lessons on youtube, but I can't yet tell for myself what is good advice and what's not, out there in the wider internet - but I do know and trust this forum...

So, any tips / pointers anyone? Any recommended resources?

Thanks

[slide496]

I'd be interested as well - I started last September and I don't have an aptitude for it.

Same experience with varying - I record myself and put the mp3 in a folder to refer, if its ok, so I don't have to go through that again with that song. But often times I think it is going great to be disappointed. Some songs I do better on than others, its not consistent at this point for me.

[obrienp]

Michael Roach runs a singing class at Blues Week. Well worth attending. However, I know Blues Week is a big commitment in terms of time and money but if you are going, its worth arranging your classes so you can attend.

There are loads of singing teachers out there as well but I guess you need to find one who is used to coaching people who don't want to follow the grade system from the likes of Royal School of Music.

[Deleted]

I always refer to myself as a singer first, partly because it helps to excuse my mediocre guitar playing, but mostly because it's the instrument that's always been most intuitive for me (I just discovered didgeridoo -- it's a close second!).

For me, the most important thing about singing is to realize that it's just that: an instrument. Or rather, your body becomes the instrument. And just like any instrument, there are different parts to it they require your attention.

Breathing, obviously. It really helps to use your abdomen to propel your breath - rather than your upper chest or throat or nose, because you need those for something else. Thinking of the abdomen/lungs as part of a bellows system helps me visualize the process.

Then it's a matter of guiding the breath into different areas of the throat/mouth/nasal cavity, and while also using the muscles there to manipulate the air. Sort of like pressing the different keys on a saxophone. I have the feeling most people trying to sing tend to focus only on what the mouth is doing and forget that the rest of the body is an important part of the instrument as well.

Not sure if that helps. I'm not sure if I can really explain all the different things I'm doing while I'm singing -- I've done a lot of experimenting, and I can change the quality of my voice pretty dramatically, depending on the effect I'm going for. So one moment I can do a fairly convincing Mel Tormé, the next, I'm in pure Tom Waits zone (I tend to avoid Death Metal, however).

What pleases me the most, however, and what I recommend to people, is to always sing with one's natural speaking voice. Think of the way Lou Reed sings. Singing this way involves the least strain on your voice while singing, sounds the least artificial.

Another thing that really helps: Moving to France. French people seem to embrace singers who can't sing in key...

[gaucho]

One thing I notice listening to a lot of the old masters. Some sing with the same line of guitar music played concurrently and others seem to sing (over some sort of filler riff) and then play the same line on the guitar. Sorry, I don't know the technical terms for these styles, hope my description makes sense. It seems like singing over a simple riff and then playing the line of music would be much easier to manage. I also like how some (Fred McDowell comes to mind) start singing a line and then tail off the vocal and finish it with the guitar. Lots to consider, there certainly don't seem to be any "rules", which is good!

[Rob Anderlik]

Singing seems to be one of those things that comes naturally to some folks and not to others. Still, most of the great singers that I know personally are naturally gifted but they've also spent 1000's of hours honing their craft, training their voice the same way an instrumentalist would train themselves to play the guitar, etc. If singing doesn't come naturally to you studying with a voice teacher can go a long way to help you learn some basic technique. I took voice lessons for a few months when I was getting started and they really helped a lot. The main things I found helpful was understanding how to project my voice and extending my range through some exercises.

[Deleted]

I also think that whatever your natural singing voice is, to use it and improve on it.
I'm not talking about accents - singing with a USA accent is fine if it suits the song.
I mean don't try and sing like a black man if you are white etc.
FWIW, I like Peter Green's voice. I dislike Eric Burdon, Joe Cocker, Lena Zavaroni etc.
TT

[thebluesbear( al)]

Hi

here are some ideas that i have made work so if it helps

a..experiment with the key , take it down and up a half a step at a time sometimes
b..your natural speaking voice is important i agree totally with that point
c..try different songs different types of music etc start with as simple music as possible
d...open your mouth wide
e...work on deep breaths

and whatever you do enjoy it

al

[izzydunne]

Black men tend to have a deeper voice than white guys. That is why they easily and naturally sing the blues, and white guys are more suited to the high and lonesome sound of old country music. Each has their skills and their applications. When white guys try to sing like the ODBG (old dead blues guys) it comes across as comical and affected. Bob Brozman is a good example of a contemporary white blues singer trying to sound black.

[mikenewport]

Hi

My experience is that sitting down playing and singing in the house comes out different from standing on a stage. I would recommend standing without guitar and record your singing then find the best key for your voice. Sitting on a sofa with a guitar under your arm does nothing for breathing.

I agree with mickeyz two points about the voice as (the best) instrument and breathing from the abdomen. The higher pitch suggested by izzydune I believe comes from competing with the guitar, trying to sing over the top of it, where voice and instrument should be complimentary.

As regards inconsistency, well maybe you're approaching the task, chore or pleasure of singing and playing in different ways. It's not always easy to get 'good time' to practice. Why not have a short warm up of voice and body before each session to ensure your approaching it in the same way. Good luck Bod and let us know what works we could probably all do with some help ha ha

Mike

[mitchfit]

singing is like dancing.

most of us tend to be excessively over critical about our own singing.

try to be objective about what you usually see people doing out on the dance floor. even if
tempered with kindness, most of the gyrations one sees those dancers make are, at very best
comical.

even those who are professional dancers can appear silly, and/or over-the-top with their
performance.

let your mind's eye play a re-run of Fred Astaire "Singing in the Rain". ole Freddy and
umbrella dance partner spinning "chaines" while carefully splashing through each tiny
puddle for effect.

those who really appreciate how difficult even a simple dance routine can be consider
Mr. Astaire quite talented.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

back from the oblique comparison realm, does Bob Dylan have a good singing voice?

if you answered "no", would you be interested in his songs had he not sang on them?

IMHO, Jimi Hendrix sang "All Along The Watch Tower" vastly better than Bob. even
played a better guitar version of it.

still, when i hear the song in my mind's stereo, Bob's good ole nasal voice and
trailing O-O-o-ff syncopated phrasing fills both speakers.

Niel Young. Tom Petty. John Hurt. Muddy Waters. Mic Jagger.

i could go on and on here.

what do they all have in common?

they overcame their fear of ridicule and got out on the floor and danced.

mitchfit

[Deleted]

That'd be Gene Kelly in the rain. Astaire was all about the London fog.

If white (British) singers hadn't tried to imitate the blues guys, we'd have lost out on a lot of GREAT music, not to mention an entire cultural revolution. Not to mention it was thanks to Burdon, Jagger, Daltrey et al that white America discovered a style of music they'd pretty much ignored or forgotten - in which case, NONE of us would be playing the blues today.

What I really like about singers like Jagger is that, despite being heavily influenced by the blues singers, they ended up developing their own highly unique singing style.

What's also interesting is that Jagger took that 'barking seal' vocal style and made it quite musical. So it IS possible.

[mikenewport]

BB King readily admits that he can't sing and play at the same time, he can do both really well but not at the same time...and there starts a style.

[lewiscohen]

Definitely another vote for avoiding the vocal equivalent of blackface. I've been guilty of it in the past and it's thoroughly embarrassing now! That doesn't mean you can't adopt a degree of vocal stylisation if it suits the material. How ludicrous would a British opera singer sound if they didn't do that?

One tip is to make sure you have properly internalised the song - you know the lyrics inside out, and have constructed the story of the song's meaning in your head, maybe some evocative mental images to go with it, and if you're accompanying yourself make sure that you are very comfortable with what you are playing instrumentally first. Any of those things not being in place can unnecessarily throw your vocal off.

Another is to warm your voice up. Start with the lowest note you can sing and try and gradually swoop up to the highest and back down. Repeat. Aim for smoothness, no warbles and wobbles or jerky increases/decreases in pitch. A couple of singing lessons with a good teacher will give you all the exercises like that you'll ever need.

Last tip, and particularly applicable to approaching a style like blues..... the vast majority of these songs have melodies, they're not just improvised testifying over chords. Find the melodies, pick them out on your instrument to reinforce them in your mind, and respect them.

You'll get there, because you've already done the most important thing which is recognise that you want to improve. Self awareness is more than half of the job.

[mitchfit]

"That'd be Gene Kelly in the rain. Astaire was all about the London fog."

OOoops, seems my mind's eye re-run must have been tuned to the wrong
station!

[or gotten London foggy with the passage of time]

re-reading the original posting, it comes across as being highly critical.

this was not my intention, i made a point of listing only singers who i like
very much, and should have said so in that posting.

also wasn't trying to diss getting vocal training. just wanted to make the
point that being an excellent singer is not prerequisite.

mitchfit