Penetro guitar by John Dopyera

[Tymus]

I came across this interesting guitar last night on the “Collectors weekly” web site.



It is said to be one of only nine Penetro guitars built by John Dopyera himself in either 1941/2.

I’ve been hunting around the web all morning but have been unable to find any more info on these instruments, does anybody here know anything about them?

Here’s a link to the website, but unfortunately it offers very little information.

www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/25958-penetro---one-of-nine-built-by-john-do?in=961

Cheers Tymus.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Tymus,

I don't know much about these guitars. What I do know I think I got from Bev King's Dobro Scrapbook. Apparently John Dopyera handbuilt a few as Penetro Guitars and then they were marketed as Regal. I can't recall ever having one in my hands, but I have seen a few photos over the years. The tailpiece is from an earlier time.

Hopefully Mark Makin can shed some more light on this one....

Shine On
Michael

[Mark Makin]

Hi Tymus.
There really isn't much more to say.
The original 9 were built by John Dopyera in his Grants Pass shop in Oregon.
They were half the depth of a normal guitar and were fitted with mandolin Parts. The necks on John's original run of instruments seem to be Supro electric lap steel necks and fingerboards - headstock and markers are the same.
John Dopyera's quote about them is as follows:-

"I made these guitars under the name Penetro and there weren't more than nine of them made at most, as shortly after that, I moved to Grants Pass, Oregon and had a shop there for 11 years. So these guitars were made in my shop that I named the guitar house, on Florence Avenue and 10th Street from 1936-37. However Regal found out about it and they have made some too. It makes a nice guitar for Hawaiian only"

The Regal version has a green oval Regal logo and slightly rounded headstock. They have white bar and diamond markers on the fingerboard but with the same numbered frets. They also are fitted with normal "moon and stars" mandolin coverplates.

The one that you picture is missing the small Dobro screen hole mesh rings.

[Tymus]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info.
These instruments do seem to be rare and illusive, I’ve tried looking for the Regal version but I’ve found no mention of that one either here on the web!

Would I be correct in assuming that it is a square neck, also the hole in the cover strap seems to suggest that it has a spider type cone? Do you have any idea of the scale length, I’ve tried scaling and measuring the photo (assuming it has a 9 1/16” Dobro mandolin cone) it would suggest an approximate scale of between 23” & 24”

Cheers Tymus.

[Mark Makin]

Hello Tymus
Yes - it is a squareneck, yes it is (as far as we know) a spider arrangement. As it seems to have a supro lap steel neck, I would imagine it is standard short scale lap steel sized.
Here is a picture of the Regal "production" version

[blenderbender]

Hi folks.... this little reso is my guitar and I posted on "collectors weekly" site. I'm attaching a photo of the inside where it is written in pencil "made by John Doperya March 1, 1940 The Guitar House 3201 W Florence Ave. Los angeles, Calif." If John moved to Grant's Pass prior to 1940 then I can't account for the discrepancy, but his son John E Doperya, in an email, did reflect that he recalled seeing a Penetro on his Dad's bench. He didn't state whether that was in California or Oregon. The Penetro isn't missing the sound hole screens as it never had them. This was a feature of the production Regals. The guitar has a 23" scale.

Attachments:

[blenderbender]

oops.... that's Dopyera

[blenderbender]

and yes, spider and squareneck as suggested

[Tymus]

Hi Blenderbender,

Thank you for joining in on this thread and I hope you don’t mind that I posted the picture of your “curious little resonator” here! This intriguing guitar offers an insight into another little part of the history of the Dopyera brothers and their resonator instruments.

If you have any more info you could share with us I myself and others here would be most grateful. I’m particularly interested in the body’s construction, questions like… does it have a neckstick, how deep is the body and are the sides bent or cut from solid timber etc? Perhaps you have some more photos you could post showing the internal details and maybe back and side views?

I’ve been considering building a small bodied short scale lap steel resonator for a while now (another one of my future projects) and when I came across your post at “Collectors weekly” it naturally caught my interest, especially as it was made by John Dopyera himself.

In Mark Makin’s earlier post he quotes John Dopyera “It makes a nice guitar for Hawaiian only”. In your opinion how does its sound compare to the larger bodied “standard” Dobro guitar?

Cheers Tymus.

[blenderbender]

Hi Tymus.... by neckstick do you mean steel reinforcing rod? It does not have that. The body is 2.25 inches deep. Top is 5/64''

[blenderbender]

Didin't mean to send that first one... have a keyboard issue here. Anyway, the top is 5/64'' and the bottom is 3/16'' thick. The sides seem to be of sawn lumber as there are vertical saw marks on the inside (I can see through the soundholes), and the side thickness varies from shoulder to body. By feel it seems to be about 3/8'' to 1/2'' thick around the shoulder and narrows down to something less than that towards the upper bout. I can't tell you more than has already been mentioned. I've had this guitar for nearly 40 years and only began to learn something about it when I discovered it in Bev King's 'Dobrosist Scrapbook' years ago. She knew nothing more than she wrote in the book. George Gruhn passed my questions off to Walter Lord who didn't know anymore. If I ever remove the resonator cover again I'll take some more pictures inside, but at this point I don't have time to deal with that. Hope this helps a bit.

Gary

[Michael Messer]

Hi Blenderbender,

Thank you for joining this thread. Your guitar is beautiful and also a wonderful piece of history.

Do you play it, or have you ever played it? I ask that because the strings appear to be on top of the tailpiece buttons which would affect the break angle and therefore the tone and playability of the guitar. I see the broken tuners, but it looks playable.



The build quality is interesting and quite unusual for John Dopyera as it appears to be asymmetrical. The two sides are cut different and the base where the tailpiece is looks like it was cut on an angle. It is a very interesting guitar.

As Tymus asked - what does it sound like?

We would be most interested in any information or more photos of this guitar.

Thank you so much for joining us and talking about this wonderful guitar.

Shine On
Michael.

[blenderbender]

Forgot to mention that Mr. Dopyera was right when he said it was probably just suited for Hawaiian.... lacks any kind of big, round sound more typical of the larger boxes. The short scale makes it a bit challenging also.

Gary

[blenderbender]

Hi Michael.... yes, I play it occasionally, not nearly what I used to. Regarding the strings on top of the tailpiece buttons, I'm a little confused as they have always been there and I see no other way to string it. The underside of the buttons appear to be swaged side of a rivet so to speak and would be a rougher surface. I'll look more closely next time I have the strings off. Near as I can tell the body is symmetrical. Maybe my camera makes it look a little off. I'll take some more pics when I get a chance and post them here.

Gary

[Michael Messer]

Thanks Gary. I can see now that the photo is wonky, not the guitar.

Here are a couple of photos of early National tailpieces with the strings either side of the buttons. It is a bit fiddly to do, but is the correct method.





Thanks,

Shine On
Michael.