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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 4, 2014 9:18:23 GMT
"Resonators are infamous for playing out of tune for 85 years" .....where did you get that ridiculous piece of information? I have been playing resonators guitars for four decades and during that time I have been around most of the top players and makers, and I have never heard any of them (a) comment about the intonation, and (b) have a problem playing them. I have made a dozen or so albums playing them and never once have I been confronted with an intonation problem.
The compensated bridge saddle is not new, I have seen that many times, but the compensated nut is a new one on me! I have never seen anyone do anything like that before.
'Infamous' - means that something is well known for its bad quality. Infamous with WHO?
If you guys are so keen on inventing things, why don't you invent something new, rather than keep trying to re-invent and adjust something that is so simple and yet so perfect.
Shine On Michael
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 18:28:39 GMT
It's things like these you get to know with the right attitude: IMPROVE AN ALREADY GOOD DESIGN TO NEAR PERFECTION. Your nut compensation is one of the most perfect things I've seen for a while. TT
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Post by davey on Oct 4, 2014 19:41:10 GMT
I'd be willing to bet that Resonatorman is an engineer or academic of some sort. I find that Engineers think a bit differently from other folks, maybe it's a left brain / right brain sort of thing.
My Pal, who is an Engineer by training is completely impossible to jam with, as everything has to be "right". If I noodle about for an extra bar because I've forgotten the next verse or some such, he more or less stops playing as I haven't played it "right."
This is not meant to insult Resonatorman or anyone else, but some folks worry about different stuff to the rest of us.
As for Resobridge, Bisc-o-tune and compensated nuts, they're solving a problem we don't have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 6:07:39 GMT
(facepalm...) If you need a nut compensator as extreme as that, your guitar is set up really badly. Check out my last 'home made dobro' - aside from compensating the b (very easy to do), it needs no extra compensation. The intonation is near perfect whatever I play on it: 14-56s too. If I stuck your "granny's teeth" in it, it would be horribly out of tune as soon as I fretted. So I dont think you are an engineer... TT
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Post by blueshome on Oct 5, 2014 11:52:45 GMT
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Post by davey on Oct 5, 2014 12:22:09 GMT
Just as a complete deviation from the above thread, have a listen to this. It isn't long. The interesting thing for me is that her voice isn't always exactly in tune or perfect, but it sounds fantastic.
I think the Blues, coming from African music can be forgiven for not giving two hoots for western music theory. Maria Callas would have been a great Blues singer.
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Post by slide496 on Oct 5, 2014 12:46:02 GMT
I thought it was allegedly a technique to correct "horrible" intonation on a string on an acoustic when the distance from the nut to the twelfth is longer than the 12th to the saddle. I assume its not for when the distance is shorter or whether its relevant to a resonator.
I have no idea how it happens that one string goes-out whether the instrument was made wrong or the neck has twisted or bowed or what the deal is with the frets staying the same when you shorten it at the top. I suppose you could test it with something easier to cut like a wood shim.
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Post by zak71 on Oct 5, 2014 13:09:04 GMT
The overwhelming majority of acoustic guitars on this planet manage just fine with a fixed-position glued-down bridge topped with a straight saddle, angled several degrees for compensation. There's nothing special about a resonator guitar that makes it require anything more than that. A National bridge biscuit's saddle is several times wider than an acoustic guitar saddle, making it possible to adjust the break point of individual string slots, which means it's even easier to compensate than a conventional acoustic.
I think Davey's post about Maria Callas is 100% right on the money.
Has all that homogenous, processed radio pablum, pieced together with ProTools and AutoTuned to perfection, made you all oh-so-sensitive to microtonal discrepancies? If that is the case, I really suggest you just give up the guitar and take up playing the synthesizer.
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Post by slide496 on Oct 5, 2014 13:22:11 GMT
I thoroughly agree with your comments Zak!.
What I hear in most prewar music that I listen to is the guitar is tuned to the voice by the singer, not as its done these day, the other way around and IMHO there is a dimension lost doing that, and a diminishing of the power of both the voice and the guitar.
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Post by davey on Oct 5, 2014 13:29:28 GMT
Great thread this, isn't it ? When you change the position of the nut on a guitar, all the fret positions are wrong as you have messed about with the fundamental calculations for fret positions. liutaiomottola.com/formulae/fret.htm
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 5, 2014 14:28:28 GMT
LMAO...i would leave it right here, but just cannot stand Michael having the last word (as always). Resonatorman, Your 'LMAO' abbreviation was lost on me as I had to look it up on Google to find its meaning. I will just say that with 166 posts on here, you are a valuable member of this community, but if you are not happy with the way I host the forum, there is no point in continuing. Shine On Michael.
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Post by zak71 on Oct 5, 2014 14:44:01 GMT
Resonatorman, Your 'LMAO' abbreviation was lost on me as I had to look it up on Google to find its meaning. Hey, at least it wasn't "ROTFLMAO" - that would have been over-the-top.
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Post by mitchfit on Oct 5, 2014 14:57:00 GMT
GREATLY EXPANDED/EDITED FROM ORIGINAL POSTING.
was pressed for time when same was written, had to mow the lawn in a wild hope that the growing season is over here in NETEX.
after some web crawling and cyphering on the new [to me] info presented here in above postings...
as previously stated, perfect intonation on a guitar is only a concept. as such, ~no guitar~ intonates correctly at every fret on the neck, with any strings chosen.
somewhat akin to perfect people. [when chosen from mere mortals]
guess the final cut is what degree of imperfection can be acceptable.
would think that the hammer striking piano strings starts them off vibrating at slightly incorrect Hz also.
openly admitted before, not an oscilloscope ear on my head.
kinda reminds me of all the amp tone freaks. [it's ok for me to be cynical, i resemble that remark]
all the agonizing we do about the "bestest ever" amp(s) sound at home is totally meaningless when transposed into a bar/pub mit der prerequisite liquid entertainment saturated listeners. many of which wouldn't notice the difference between my prized tubular stone age amp clones built from schematics found under the great pyramid and a decent solid state modeling amp. even when sober.
if that opinion gets moved up higher on the audible spectrum to arena venues, consider the "Cream" Clapton/Bruce kilowatt amps> close mic> even higher powered PA> low fidelity but very nearly explosion proof speakers/drivers and where did all the pristine holy grail tone slip off to?
we wont delve into the chemical makeup of the mythical average concert attendee.
when recording, in a sonically sterile environment, the sound i expend so much energy chasing can be appreciated. in the case of a famous band, what to do about a huge difference in what was recorded, and the same song played live? without any need to single out a particular band, how many live renditions of recorded music have you heard that wasn't even in the same county as the original? what will such a band do when Michael Douglas bursts through the door at McDonalds and demands that ~HIS~ hamburger looks like the one in the picture?
bear with me, going out on a tangent here.
i dunno who attribute the below saying to but suspect that it was either Socrates or Confucius:
a guitar player's "sound" is roughly broken up into-
10%---the guitar played 20%---the amplifier played into 70%---the person playing the guitar
if you agree with that, the next progression in this analogy is, would the Alan Lomax recordings be improved or degraded if they were remastered into digital, and then each and every incorrect pitch was corrected?
just one of those questions that mankind has been pondering since the dawn of civilization.
mitchfit
now i've gotta go light up the tractor, and bush hog a fire break around the mowed lawn, and up the driveway to the road.
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Post by mitchfit on Oct 5, 2014 15:01:33 GMT
"LAUGHING MY AMP(s) OFF"
mitchfit
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naymi
MM Forum Member
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Post by naymi on Oct 7, 2014 9:20:57 GMT
Hi, very interesting thread. I'll take the opportunity to ask something I have always wondered. By reading your posts, I think it's something obvious for all of you, but I've always had the doubt. Resonators aside, why don't accoustic guitars use the same system as electric guitars? I mean, it seems like a good thing to be able to adjust each string individually. Why not take advantage of the same system in accoustic guitars?
Regards.
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