Sliding on an acoustic

[Deleted]

If anyone can throw any light on this I'd be grateful.

I love the sound of slide played on an ordinary acoustic guitar, Sea Sick Steve, Ry Cooder etc. I mostly play a steel bodied reso these days, but every now and then I need a change.

I have a very, but, very nice sounding Breedlove acoustic, it is totally typical of the Breedlove "piano tone" that is Breedloves claim to fame!
Since discovering the joys of playing reso, this guitar has seen little use. So.......I put a set of 13-56's on, tuned it to open D, and laid a slide on it. Very nice indeed......until you hit the 5th fret!!!!!!

At this point, I can only describe the sound as "SHRILL", "LOUD", PIERCING"!!!!!

The current set up is:
D'Addario flat top 13-56's.
I have used a Daddyslide brass slide. Not good!
One of Ian McWees Redhouse slides. Better, but not great!
Both of the above mentioned slides on a reso, fantastic, so no adverse reflection there.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here?
Is it just the wrong guitar for sliding?
Where should I look for a basic acoustic for sliding?

Rich.

[Deleted]

Sorry, I should have said 5th fret "1st string". The rest sound fine.

Rich.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Rich,

The guitar should be fine for slide playing. The only things I can think of are:

1st string is too low?
1st string is too light?
D'Addario flat top strings are not suitable?
Try a set of regular medium gauge strings.
Glass slide should sound better, but that is a personal taste thing.

Let me know how you get on

Shine On
Michael.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the quick response Michael.

I believe string height to be "normal" for an acoustic. Its higher than my Busker Delta.

I have a set of MM 15-56's on hand that I reckon to be worth a try. The glass slide is definitely better. One thing I have noticed is that, slide positioning over the fret is "hyper critical", 1 mm either way is very noticeable. On a reso, I have a margin of error that does not exist on the Breedlove.

I'll change the strings over the next couple of days and let you know what I find.

Rich.

[toom]

I stopped playing bottleneck guitar for 8 months, having sold my MM Blues and last week my NRP poly tricone, but having listened to Tom Doughty's review of the Goldtone, I was inspired to start again.

I dislike my Seagull Artist, but after putting a nut raiser onto it, and playing in open D, I'm loving playing bottleneck again.

I find I can get so much more warmth and depth when playing bottleneck on wooden guitars.

The raised strings mean each string sounds clear and resonant. Without the nut raiser the 2nd string is deadish, and drives me crazy. Perhaps you could try a nut raiser or have the action raised?

www.youtube.com/user/slideytunes#p/a/u/1/3ELlbM0xGw0

[Gerry C]

I'm not sure what one is in a technical sense but I know when I hear one: could that string at that point be producing a wolf note? (And no, it's nothing to do with Funny Papa Smith, Hubert Sumlin, Mr Burnett or Buddy Woods!)

Cheerily,

Gerry C

Edit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_note Seems they are more usual on bowed instruments, but could the slide be acting in the same way as a bow? Just a random thought...

[Deleted]

Richic, I use Newtone masterclass 13-56's on my acoustic to play slide. Diamond Bottlenecks may still have some of the very light cut glass slides for light gauge strings. Such a lighter slide might solve your problem.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the input Gentlemen, very much appreciated.

I have tried swapping the 13 for a 15 and to my cloth ears, there might be a marginal improvement. I should have mentioned in my original post that the problem extends to the 7th fret.

I am inclined to think that the first point in Michael's list, ie. string height might be the problem.
This point was echoed by toom, although possibly for the reverse reason with a dead second string. Like toom, I enjoy the warm sound of a wooden acoustic as a change from the rather more "raucus" sound of a full on metal bodied reso, which is why it would be nice to make this work. However, if the reason is, as I suspect, the string height, I am loathed to have the guitar set up changed to suit slide exclusively, as I like to play it finger style. To raise the action any more than it is, would probably make that somewhat difficult for me.

Barry, thanks for your suggestion. I did actually run the problem by Ian a good while ago, and he seemed to think that a lighter slide probably wouldn't help in this case. Indeed, I have tried a lighter slide, albeit a Dunlop Pyrex, which didn't seem to make any difference at all.

It has been suggested to me that this might fall within Robin's field of expertise!
So, Robin, if you are following this, any thoughts?

Gerry, thank you for that interesting suggestion. I confess I have never heard of a "wolf note". Amongst my many bizarre, and varied friends, I am lucky enough to know a concert violinist, so I shall be sure to tax him with that question when I see him next week..

So, given that I am not prepared to have my Breedlove re-setup purposely for slide, can anyone suggest a likely contender in the cheapy acoustic arena for slide playing?

Rich.

[honeyboy]

Any chance of making a recording the problem? I'm completely baffled by what it could be..

As for cheapy acoustics for sliding (it depends how you define cheapy), but to my ears you can't do better than a Crafter TR060/VLS-V



This nicely built copy of a late 1920's Ditson Style/HD-28VS Slope shouldered Jumbo with the Martin Marquis sunburst finish, solid Sitka spruce top, rosewood back and sides,12 fret to the body slothead mahogany neck with 1 3/4" width at the (bone) nut and good quality Waverley style tuners.

Stick some MM 15 - 56 reso strings on it and voila - acoustic slide heaven.

Since it seems to have been an unfashionable commercial failure, there are still opportunities to pick up new ones heavily discounted, like this one advertised in The Music Cellar, Preston for £300. (or less).

[thebluesbear( al)]

Hi

i have a 1950s levin acoustic that works great for acoustic slide perhaps you could try ebay ...i paid app 200 euros for mine

al

[Deleted]

Hi honeyboy.
Thank you for that suggestion. The Crafter that you have suggested is in the sort of price range I was thinking of. May I ask if you have made this recommendation from personal experience?
I would rather persue this avenue than disrupt my Breedlove set up.

Interesting to note that the Crafter has Rosewood back and sides as does my Breedlove, which makes me think it could well give me the sort of sound I am looking for, warm and mellow.

Rich.

[honeyboy]

Yes, I picked one up for £265 about 9 months ago, that had been lingering, untouched at the back of a local music shop for over a year.

I threw the strings it came with away and stuck some MM Newtones on it, fitted a LR Baggs M1A acoustic soundhole pickup and I'm very pleased with the results.

After a couple of months of 'playing in', it has developed a 'thunderous' bass, and there aren't that many guitars in that price range with the mix of slide friendly features, (wider than average nut width, slothead neck, slope shouldered body) and that feature such surprisingly good build quality.

Most of the cheaper secondhand acoustics I looked at on ebay had too narrow necks for playing bottleneck slide

[colinbrooks]

Another vote for the Crafter TR-060. I picked one up used for £180. It makes a great slide guitar and is very handsome looking. I don't understand why they didn't sell thousands of them.

The only objection might be that it is very big, but that's what creates the sound.

[Bob Stockton]

Don't forget the old Eko Rangers - you can pick these up for under £100 and they have an adjustable bridge, and as far as I can tell are indestructable .

[wolvoboy]

Hi all i got a late 30,s Harmony stella parlour guitar with really cheap strings on it dont know the string size but it sounds amazing ,they have been on it now for 18 months, im to scared to change them in case i lose the sound.
wolvoboy