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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 12:28:39 GMT
I use the little Stellas for slide...a Lawrence soundhole pickup and a clean amp give you a big fat amplified sound. They are good if you can get one for the right price and it's properly sorted (most need a neck reset, and watch out for loose braces & cracks). They were only ever a cheap catalogue guitar, but some people are asking silly prices for rough or mediocre examples. Having said that, I picked up a 1937 one for very little money at a guitar show a couple of months back, so they are out there to be found.
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Post by 5slide on Aug 27, 2010 21:58:47 GMT
Yes stella's are great for slide and can be picked up cheaply on ebay but as John pointed out you need to buy with caution, plenty of bad ones out there.
Another acoustic that springs to mind are the old vintage oahu's, they have monster tone.
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Post by daddyslide on Aug 28, 2010 11:00:07 GMT
Hey, I use an old Lyon and Healy "jupiter" for slide. rich, I think you should get a single or a double 0 and try it again. Newer guitars are not made for that use in my taste.
Jan
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Post by gaucho on Aug 28, 2010 15:52:16 GMT
Another vote for Stellas. I bought 2 for dirt cheap. One is pretty much original and the other I kinda restored. I also put a homemade piezo tab pick-up (about $5 total) in it and it sounds great! They both have a great kinda RJ tone with light strings and a slide.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 17:13:56 GMT
Thanks to all of you for the input and advice on this matter, I really am very grateful.
Having read through all the posts a number of times, I am going to abandon the idea of using the Breedlove for slide, I'll just keep it for finger playing. I tend to think that Kim Breedlove probably didn't have slide in mind when he designed it.
I have been aware for a long time that the old Stella's are about as good as it gets for sliding. Unfortunately I have never had the opportunity to try one, and am very unlikely to, they are as rare as hens teeth down this way!
I'd love to get my hands on one, I've seen them on Ebay and have been tempted, but as ChickenboneJohn has rightly pointed out, quality is variable!!!!!
honeyboys Crafter suggestion would seem to be a viable one, but again, where do you get to try one out?
Any of you good people got anything suitable for sale?
Rich.
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Post by daddyslide on Aug 29, 2010 9:07:13 GMT
Dear Rich, This Baby sounds great. an old small stell with a resonator, P-90 Pickup and a piezo for the cone. You can write a message to Peter Wahl: pablo.wahl (at) gmx.de Slide on, Jan
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Post by honeyboy on Aug 29, 2010 10:36:00 GMT
Richc,
Going back to the original 'shrill' problem, given that you mention the rich harmonic 'piano tone' of the Breedlove, and the fact that the slide problem happens at the 5th and 7th fret.
Could it just be that the string behind the slide is generating a shrill sounding harmonic? (Maybe with the adjoining 2nd string 'joining in' in sympathy?). Try more purposefully using your trailing fingers to dampen the string behind the slide and see if that makes any difference..
This is the only thing I can think that might explain the problem you've reported - especially since changing the strings made little difference.
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 29, 2010 11:35:25 GMT
I am with you there Honeyboy. It is very good that so many people have pitched in to advise Richc about acoustic guitars for playing slide, and there are some great suggestions, but I see no reason why the Breedlove should not be used as a slide guitar.
I still think there might be some problems with the things I mentioned in my first reply; strings, string height, choice of slide...etc, but apart from string height it is possibly down to a technique thing. Without seeing you play it is not possible to diagnose, but I agree with Honeyboy that string dampening, angle of slide so it doesn't touch other strings, pressure of slide on string....etc; something in those areas is causing the problem.
While we all like our guitars setup specially for slide playing, it should be possible for a slide player to get a good tone out of 'almost' any guitar. (Of course it is always possible that your Breedlove is the 'almost any guitar', but I doubt it).
Shine On Michael
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Post by blueshome on Aug 29, 2010 14:19:19 GMT
There are a couple of ladder braced pre-war guitars on uk eBay at the moment that would fill the bill, particularly a Stromberg Voisinet from the 20's. Well worth a look and a phone call.
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Post by blues1964 on Sept 8, 2010 18:59:50 GMT
hi old harmonys can make great slide guitars i have a h165 harmony of f ebay for £40,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 19:56:48 GMT
Update.
Solved the problem!
Bought a Stella from Mike Savage!
Cool.......... Very, very cool.
Thanks to everyone for your input, very much appreciated as always.
Rich.
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Post by daddyslide on Nov 17, 2010 22:08:46 GMT
that sounds good, Rich!
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 18, 2010 9:37:23 GMT
That is absolutely true Izzydunne and I agree that it is not the guitar that makes the music, it is the player. However, it should be noted that when Fred McDowell came to Europe for the second time, that he was playing a brand new Gibson Trini Lopez electric guitar.
Richc, it sounds like you got the right guitar there. Great stuff.
Shine On Michael
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Post by daddyslide on Nov 18, 2010 11:31:29 GMT
From my perspective, there tends to be too much focus on equipment. Someone once described Fred McDowell's guitar set-up: The strings were very old and a heavy guage. The action was quite high, because Mr. McDowell had jammed a match book cover under the nut. Yet, who can deny that out of this guitar, was coaxed the most soulful sounds that one could imagine. that's right. But I think, when I hold a guitar in my hand that looks like mojo or all my thoughts about mojo will be imaged in a guitar, it is easier to get mojo in my music, because I handle with that guitar, that has such an impression on me in a other way as I play a "normal" guitar. When I play a J-45, for me, that is the sound that I love, that is in my brain for rags and I start playing rags and be happy. wen I play a steel body guitar, in my thoughts, it is an guitar for the poor man, for simple, easy and emotional blues. and when I start playing, I can smell the dust on the street while I sit in my room. you know what I mean? it is an psychologically thing. sometimes, it makes me better.. sometimes ;-)
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Post by Tymus on Nov 18, 2010 17:52:46 GMT
Hi Rich
I feel my reply might be a little after the event as I’ve only just read this post but I thought that you and other readers might be interested in my understanding of what is happening with your Breedlove acoustic.
The problem you are experiencing is almost certainly as Gerry C. suggested a “wolf tone”. Although wolf tones are most commonly associated with Cellos they can occur on any acoustic stringed instrument and are more often to be heard on higher quality better made instruments (than the cheaper ones) due to the fact that they are far more acoustically efficient! Now without going too deep into the physics of acoustics I’ll attempt a “simple“explanation. Everything has its own natural resonance frequency, that is the speed at which it vibrates (measured in Hz), to demonstrate this loosely hold a piece of wood or metal etc. and tap it with your knuckles and you will hear a pitched note. The different parts of the guitar (i.e. soundboard, back, sides and neck) have their own particular resonant frequencies, of which the soundboard is the most important and dominant and is usually pitched two or three tones higher than the back. You may have heard of luthiers “tap tuning” or “voicing”, this is the adjustment of the resonant frequencies by means of altering the mass and or stiffness of the top and back of the instrument. There is another important resonance in the guitar, this is the air resonance inside the body, its frequency is a result of the volume of air in conjunction with the area (and shape) of the soundhole(s), it is known as the Helmholtz resonance. The Helmholtz resonance and the resonances of the soundboard the back and sides etc. act together to form what is known as the “body resonance”. The body resonance can easily be found or heard, hold the guitar in front of you and hum into the soundhole varying the pitch, you will notice at a certain frequency the guitar will start vibrating strongly and start to reinforce the hummed note. The pitch of this is the body resonance’s frequency and it’s usually pitched somewhere around G to A but can be higher or lower, bigger bodies tend to be lower than smaller bodies.
Ok back to the wolf note, a wolf note occurs when the pitch of a note played on the instrument coincides with that of the body resonance resulting in a louder sometimes harsh tone, ironically this is not really a “fault” with the instrument but rather the instrument is actually working at its best!
On your Breedlove I would guess that the body resonance will be G which is the same as the note on your top string fifth fret when tuned to open D. if you play each fret chromatically up the string (without the slide) and listen carefully you should hear that around the “G” that the note becomes slightly clearer and louder, you should also notice the same happening if you play the same note an octave higher or lower but probably to a lesser degree. You may also have noticed that when you played a G chord (in standard tuning) that it was pleasant sounding and somewhat “sweeter” than any other chords played on the guitar!
So what can be done to cure this wolf? Michael suggested trying a heavier gauge string, this would however have the reverse effect making the wolf stronger due to the fact that a higher tension will put more energy into the system, on Cellos sometimes a lighter string is fitted but it often only has a minimum effect. A more efficient result can be obtained by adding a weight to the string between the bridge and tailpiece to dampen the vibrations, you may have noticed this on some violin family instruments. Some Cellists will gently squeeze the instrument between their knees when they play the wolf note to dampen the body’s vibration or will play that particular note with less energy (as do some classical guitarists).
On a guitar you can add some mass to a specific place on the soundboard to dampen certain modes of its vibration and effectively kill off the wolf note. What you need to do is, whilst playing the wolf note, apply firm pressure to the soundboard with the ball of your thumb, you may need a third hand to help you. Keep playing the note whilst slowly moving your thumb all over the soundboard until you find a position where you notice the note to decrease in volume. Next get a piece of “blue-tack” and a small heavy object (a large nut or maybe a pound coin) and stick it to the soundboard at the location where you had your thumb. N.B. Blue-tack should not damage the finish but don’t leave it on there for days! Play the note again and listen to the effect, and adjust the location slightly until you find the position that has most effect, now remove the nut and attach a lighter weight and listen again. Keep doing this until you find the optimum amount of weight needed to bring the wolf note into a balance with the other notes on the instrument. I should point out that any mass added to the soundboard will also have some effect on the whole instrument so it is important to only use the minimum weight necessary. Now make a note of the exact position before removing the blue-tack and weight (coin, nut, washer etc), weigh this and then get a piece of hard/heavy wood and cut it down till it weighs the same, I have used ebony for this. Now the tricky part is to fix this block to the inside of the soundboard at the exact same location as you found earlier! You will need to loosen the strings to gain access through the sound-hole. I used animal glue for this as it’s easily reversible with warm water but a good quality double sided tape should also work well and has the benefit of being easy to remove and reposition if you get the location wrong.
I hope that answer wasn’t too long winded and was of some help or interest to yourself and maybe some others also. Let me know how you get on if you try this, good luck. Tymus.
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