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Post by bonzo on Feb 2, 2021 13:35:33 GMT
Hi everyone, I'm back again for advice please. I've recently watched a programme featuring the Yardbirds and was reminded that Keith Relf was electrocuted while playing his guitar. For the last year or so I have been using a cordless setup (Ammoon) which I like. However I would still like to use my cables and would like more information on how safe they are. Indoor use mostly new amps but I do have a couple of older 'dirty' ones. All solid state. Any information gladly received as always.
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 2, 2021 14:07:40 GMT
John, I think they should all be pretty safe, especially in your home that should have a circuit breaker.
I once, many years ago, got a shock on stage at a festival from the vocal mic. It was pouring with rain and the marquee wasn't as water tight as it should have been. Early on in the performance I touched the mic with my lip while playing an electric guitar and POW.... it knocked me back, but I was okay. I refused to continue until it had be sorted out and a few minutes later I was up and running again. I kept well back off the mic and since then I am always very cautious on festival stages in damp conditions. It gave me a better buzz than anything I had smoked that night ...the only problem was that it was almost me that got smoked!
Electricity, mics, leads, guitars... are a dangerous combination and I am always questioning sound engineers about that stuff. I was lucky that I lived to tell the story.
Shine On Michael
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Post by bonzo on Feb 2, 2021 14:23:18 GMT
Thanks Michael. You certainly were lucky that night. What you say about safety is pretty much as I thought but I was keen on getting an expert opinion. I think you just qualify! 😎👍🎸
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 2, 2021 14:41:44 GMT
Thanks Michael. You certainly were lucky that night. What you say about safety is pretty much as I thought but I was keen on getting an expert opinion. I think you just qualify! 😎👍🎸 Best wishes to you all, John Hmmm... I'm not sure I qualify as an electrical expert. I am sure there is someone on the forum that could give you more information from an electrical point of view. I was very lucky that night! Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2021 15:15:13 GMT
RCDs stop people getting electric shocks - in theory. A 'safe' value is 30mA, so check what RCD it is running through. I see 100mA RCDs around, and whilst that should be OK, 30mA is safer. But you get more tripouts. The other thing is to test them using the button - they are electromechanical devices, prone to getting clogged with beer / dust etc. If it's sticky, you could get a fatal shock. Take a portable one for your end of your amps etc. TT
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Post by bonzo on Feb 2, 2021 15:21:37 GMT
Thanks Michael and TT. TT, under what circumstances might you get a shock, indoors and dry please. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one interested.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2021 18:38:30 GMT
No1 - if you haven't got an RCD. No2 - faulty wiring or equipment. I'm not an expert at all btw. TT
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Post by snakehips on Feb 2, 2021 19:05:46 GMT
Hi there !
When I was at Uni, I rented out my wee PA system (Peavey 6-channel amp and a pair of 15" + horn speakers) to a few young student bands. To make sure my gear would last, I always brought the PA to the gig, set it up for the band, helped them do the soundcheck, and pack it up and brought it home myself. All that whilst I should have been studying teeth in my student flat !!!
Anyway, one hire night, the singer / lead guitarist complained he was getting little shocks off my SM58 mic, plugged into my PA system.
I knew there shouldn't be anything wrong with my system - but I checked the cables for good connections (I didn't really know what to look for), then unplugged and opened up the plug for my PA amp - all absolutely fine.
I then checked the plug of the singer/guitarist's guitar amp.
The yellow/green Earth wire had almost completely come out of it's post screw-down thingy. Only one or two strands of copper wire were lightly touching the Earth post.
So, after a couple minutes of re-cutting the three cables to expose fresh copper wires, and correctly inserting them into the posts and clamping down, and putting the plug lid back on, the amp amp worked fine AND no more shocks ! Imagine blaming my mics and PA system !!!!!!
Check every device is earthed properly.
I don't know how to explain what was going on exactly, in electrician's terms, BUT electricity was passing from the guitar amp to my PA amp (or vice versa) via the microphone, and THROUGH the singer, while he was holding his guitar.
I might personally have a constant look of being electrocuted, but I've learned a few things over the years.
The best bit of advice I ever saw, in relation to being careful not to get electrocuted on stage, is when you first step up to a microphone and/or microphone stand, do NOT grab it with your hand. If it is going to give you an electric shock, your hand muscles will tense up, and you will continue to grip onto what is electrocuting you !!! You will find it very difficult to let go, thus continue to get shocked.
Also, IF you see someone being electrocuted, do NOT try and pull them off whatever they are touching, as you might get a shock too. Instead, in preference, try and switch off whatever is shocking the person.
So, when walking up to a microphone and planning to touch it or the mic stand, your first touch should be with the BACK of your hand. Yes, you might still get a shock BUT it will be a brief one - and may even knock your hand away from it. THIS is a much safer way to deal with it.
No doubt, there might be an electronic gizmo you can use to test stuff instead, instead of the back of your hand being the guinea pig, I don't know. Anyone know of anything commercially available ?
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Post by slide496 on Feb 3, 2021 20:44:02 GMT
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Post by Andymccann on Feb 3, 2021 21:25:19 GMT
Electricity is always looking for the easiest route to ground, regardless if that’s a copper cable or a human body. It doesn’t care. Get your kit checked.
One area of concern to me is the fascination with old tube amps. Especially amps with no isolation transformer where the chassis carries mains voltage (50s radios for example worked like this and were insulated in their wooden cases) or people who insist on using non grounded power cables for authenticitys sake. Sorry but it’s not safe and it’s asking for trouble
Many ‘retailers’ sell old amps that are frankly dangerous If you still have the so-called death cap in your fender champ you are taking an un necessary risk in my opinion. Mid century gear is very cool but it can and should also be made safe
This has been only marginally relevant so sorry about that. Public service
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Post by bonzo on Feb 3, 2021 21:41:27 GMT
Good points well made Andy. The novelty of ancient electrical equipment of any sort has never appealed to me. I do use modern valve amps in my hi-fi set up so do appreciate their charms!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Andymccann on Feb 3, 2021 21:50:24 GMT
I’ve had a few 60s amps. Funnily enough, NoTom currently has my old Gretsch for sale (Great amps those old Valcos, think MM has the National version?), but I get a more appealing noise at home volume from solid state stuff
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Post by bonzo on Feb 3, 2021 21:52:27 GMT
Thanks for posting the link Harriet. I am always careful around electrics in general, I won't be servicing my own amps for sure!
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by slide496 on Feb 3, 2021 23:00:02 GMT
Thanks for posting the link Harriet. I am always careful around electrics in general, I won't be servicing my own amps for sure! Best wishes to you all, John Similar here where electricity is involved, MMV where applicable.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 4, 2021 9:17:00 GMT
What Andy is saying about safety and early tube amps is true. I used to own a 1930s Truvoice amp, it was part of a set with a Rickenbacher guitar. It needed a service and I took it to my amp repairer and when I went to collect it the first thing I noticed was a large yellow sticker "Danger - Electricity!", which was accompanied by him telling me that it now works, but you must never use it because it is too dangerous. So I sold the amp and guitar a few weeks later.
I use tube/valve amps all the time. I have a 50s Valco, a 15 year old handbuilt Champ and my hifi is tube/valve. I love the sound of tubes and would never use anything else for playing and listening.
Shine On Michael
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