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Post by Stevie on Feb 4, 2021 9:37:04 GMT
If there's a will and sufficient cash, anything can be made safe. There are now some fantastic solid state solutions. Personal preferences are great. Double blind tests are even greater.
It's too broad a church ever to generalise.
My $0.02 obviously, but first let me thrust my hand into that gash.
e&oe ...
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Post by bonzo on Feb 4, 2021 9:44:25 GMT
As long as you're not thrusting your hand into the back of a valve amp Steve! 😊😎👍🎸🎸
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Post by bonzo on Feb 4, 2021 9:46:58 GMT
So am I right in thinking that solid state is considered (in general) safer than valve equipment?
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Post by pete1951 on Feb 4, 2021 11:19:30 GMT
Solid state amp are usually operating a a lower voltage than valve amps. You still have the mains ac. voltage going in (which is then lowered by a transformer) so there is enough for a bad shock , but valve amps often have much higher dc. voltages , so can give much bigger shocks if something bad has happened to the amp . Hopefully (in the UK) it will always have an earth wire. The dangerous voltage will go to ground and blow the fuse.
Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 4, 2021 11:19:31 GMT
If there's a will and sufficient cash, anything can be made safe. There are now some fantastic solid state solutions. Personal preferences are great. Double blind tests are even greater. It's too broad a church ever to generalise. My $0.02 obviously, but first let me thrust my hand into that gash. e&oe ...Steve, Just to clarify .... I chose not to make it safe because it would have destroyed its originality. As an amp it was no better than my other tube/valve amps, so I decided it was preferable for the sake of history to leave it as it was originally intended to be. If everything is modernised and made safe, there would be nothing left from those times. Shine On Michael |
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Post by Andymccann on Feb 4, 2021 11:46:16 GMT
If there's a will and sufficient cash, anything can be made safe. There are now some fantastic solid state solutions. Personal preferences are great. Double blind tests are even greater. It's too broad a church ever to generalise. My $0.02 obviously, but first let me thrust my hand into that gash. e&oe ...Steve, Just to clarify .... I chose not to make it safe because it would have destroyed its originality. As an amp it was no better than my other tube/valve amps, so I decided it was preferable for the sake of history to leave it as it was originally intended to be. If everything is modernised and made safe, there would be nothing left from those times. Shine On Michael Adding modern transformers etc to modify an amp, agreed just leave it but adding a grounded cable and snipping the De’ath cap in a Fender tweed is, in my opinion, perfectly rational and will not hurt the value. Especially if the removed parts re kept |
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Post by snakehips on Feb 4, 2021 13:18:27 GMT
Hi again !
And if you sell it on, still dangerous, how will you feel if you find out someone later was electrocuted by the amp ?
I think when it comes to the toss up between preserving life, or preserving a vintage amp, there seems no question in my mind.
It's not like you would ruin the tone of the amp - is it really such a bad modification ?
Oh, and I have given myself a shock from a vintage amp before (a circa 1947 Masco MU-17).
The fuse had blown. The surround for the original fuse holder around the back of the amp had a section broken off, exposing the metal underneath.
This exposed metal was hidden underneath the fuse holder screw cap. As I began to unscrew the cap, the metal part became exposed - and my finger touched it. Took me a few seconds of shocks to realise what was happening, to then pull my hand away.
You know those toy wind-up things, you put in the palm of your hand, to shake someone's hand with, and give them a fright ?
I always thought those things were rubbish - and the mechanical shock they give, is nothing like an electric shock.
However, I found it it is REALLY quite like that, except worse.
No one would know if I'm being electrocuted, as my hair always sticks up anyway !!!
So, I take such dodgy amps even more seriously than I used to.
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Post by Stevie on Feb 4, 2021 13:54:09 GMT
"As long as you're not thrusting your hand into the back of a valve amp Steve!"
Done that with an AC30 and it had been switched off for eight hours. Still propelled me right across the room! I have others too but not perhaps for this thread.
I see where you're coming from Michael and I completely agree too, but at the same time it's often held that guitars are meant to be played. I agree with that and I think the same applies to amps. All you did was absolve yourself of any guilt while passing it along to the next Philistine without such a conscience. Still, as I said- I'll not cavil with your decision.
In my other world of radio, the same applies and you'll see restoration folks strip down a capacitor's can and reuse it with a new miniature one inside. Same goes for carbon composition resistors and so on. I have seen HC25 crystals hidden inside older and larger crystal cases. That is what I meant by throwing enough cash at it.
I have an original Dallas Rangemaster here. It was noisy when the knob was adjusted (they just are because the pot is across the transistor) and it gave a massive thump through the loudspeaker(s) when switched on and off. I left it with ABC Music in Addlestone to "fix" it, and guess what? They put a new silicon transistor and metal film resistors in it, and of course it was still the same. It beggars belief. I have now acquired a batch of OC44s, selected the one nearest to the required HFE and restored it to original, but the cork sniffers will poo-poo the new solder, and to be honest they have every right to at the stratospheric prices Rangemasters command. I think that in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) everything that matters to us tends towards an homogeneous mass without human intervention. Regular sensitive servicing should not be a barrier to preservation for future generations, in fact I'd take issue with anyone that denied it is a prerequisite.
And now, to trash what I've just said, I had my 1973 Strat refinished by Roka's in Endell Street. It now sports what can only be described as a red plastic skin. Thank you for that Mark Knoppfler! I also had the maple neck skimmed and an ebony fret board fitted. (Thanks again Mark!) I have long since realised my mistakes, and as penance I have kept all the wiring and electrical components intact (and stock) including the 3-way switch. But those cork sniffers will home in on the new solder on the output jack socket and strings ground wire.
You just can't win!
If you want to avoid shocks, first use a cordless connection, then use a residual current circuit breaker (not an earth leakage device although they're better than nothing) Carry a 3-pin plug in mains tester and use it before setting up, touch nothing else on stage (including any microphones) and wear wellies, you'll be alright then, just ask Les Harvey!
e&oe ...
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Feb 4, 2021 14:03:08 GMT
My tanners worth.
Having been zapped in the 1960s via a mic / valve amp / old multiplug extension lead combination, knocked out for a few minutes and brought round with a cup of very sweet tea being poured through my blistered lips, I still use valve amps for both guitar and bass.
The difference now is I own all my power cables which are fitted with RCD plugs and I check, check and check again before powering up and plugging in whether I'm playing at home, in a studio or on stage.
...oh and I never go near a mic unless it is proven to me that the PA is also protected by an RCD, either.
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Post by bonzo on Feb 4, 2021 14:31:54 GMT
Oh dear! Almost wish I hadn't asked now!
I'm only ever going to be playing indoors with solid state amps. I think I'll stick with the ammoons just to be on the safe side. Although I do setup my own guitars, electrics included, I've never got into changing pots or switches. Soldering a new jackplug or pickup is as far as I feel confident enough to go. After reading some of your posts only confirms what I already thought,leave anything that might kill you to somebody who knows what they're doing (hopefully).
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 4, 2021 14:57:11 GMT
It was fifteen years ago and original is "original". That's why it had a DANGER >ELECTRICITY sticker on it.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by snakehips on Feb 4, 2021 16:29:02 GMT
Not original now, with a DANGER>ELECTRICITY sticker on it, LOL !
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 4, 2021 17:15:52 GMT
Staying on topic and being serious.
It was a very clean 1935 Bakelite Rickenbacher Electro Spanish Model B with it's original Truvoice amp, which was also the guitar case. These were among he first electric guitars ever produced, and I think the first Spanish round neck. So as a rare and important instrument, it was something that was discussed in depth and we decided that the sticker is removable, whereas the rewiring is less so.
It was certainly more of a collectors' piece than a working instrument, although I did record and gig a few times without the amp. The bakelite neck is not great for holding tuning, so all in all I decided to move it on.
If everything is changed to meet modern standards, then eventually no-one will know what things were actually like.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by pete1951 on Feb 4, 2021 17:58:21 GMT
Did you get it from the London Resonator Centre?
Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 4, 2021 18:18:27 GMT
Did you get it from the London Resonator Centre? Pete No, I got before they were around. Shine On Michael |
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