Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 12:43:48 GMT
The Bakelite necks kind of look cool...and I heard that some later ones were steel reinforced. Does anyone here know of or have played a Bakelite neck National that has good playability? Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 17, 2020 12:55:50 GMT
Fred,
I had a beautiful one in the late 80s/early 90s. It sounded amazing, but was bowed to the point where it was unplayable. in 1992 Steve Evans of Beltona Guitars built a replica neck out of wood and put a rod in the neck to make it dense and heavy, but sadly the guitar had lost its magical tone, so I sold it a few weeks later. Steve did a great job. It wasn't his fault that nothing has the tone of a chunk of bakelite. That was thirty years ago, maybe these days with all the experience we have I may have approached it differently.
To answer your question.... I have never seen one that was playable like a proper wood neck.
Shine On
Michael
|
|
|
|
Post by gaucho on Sept 17, 2020 14:49:56 GMT
To Michael's point, has anyone else ever found a magical old National (tone wise) that they sent in for a neck reset and set-up (by VERY reputable and qualified techs) and then found the instrument lost it's magical tone? I have a theory that some of the tone I desire in those instruments may actually come from the inmproper geometry. Don't get me wrong, the fixed instruments still sounded sweet (and maybe the way they are "supposed" to sound), but they sometimes lose that dirty, swampy tone that I find so desirable. Think Robert Petway's Sears Duolian's tone. I've found a couple that had that, but the neck angle made them unplayable for fretted playing. PS. I'm not referring to the Sears Duolian I have that Rik Besser fixed up. That one is a MONSTER!  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 17:13:30 GMT
I call that old tone the Froggy Croakin tone... it easy for the frogs to get away when you mess with the old untouched guitars...Is that what you mean Gaucho?
I have only sent one of my Nationals to a professional for service, and that was my avatar 37 Piano grain Triolian sent to NRP probably 15 years or so ago. It had high action. I dont remember what they did, though I probably have the reciept somewhere. I never took it apart or changed the strings since. Wondering now would they have swapped the cone and biscuit...? Cost me $350 or so. All I can say it is so loud that an experienced player and owner of many Vintage Nationals, Toby Walker, freaked out when he played it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 17:47:21 GMT
Has anyone ever put a fretboard on a bowed neck that is flat(ish) along the surface but cambered underside to fit the bow?
TT
|
|
|
|
Post by gaucho on Sept 17, 2020 17:51:42 GMT
Has anyone ever put a fretboard on a bowed neck that is flat(ish) along the surface but cambered underside to fit the bow? TT TT, that's exactly what was done to my '31 Duolian with the "unfixable" neck. The guitar builder planed the neck slightly and then built a "compensated" (I don't know if that's the right term) fretboard to make everything level. He also put in a carbon rod. The thing plays and sounds incredible now! It's the one in my avatar. Edit: The guy who did it was a builder of beautiful classical guitars. Never had he worked on a resonator before. He had done a similar job on a friend's 1920s Supertone and it came out beautifully. I had taken it to 2 absolutely top-rung National Luthiers who had both told me the guitar wasn't worth fixing and furthermore they weren't willing to mess with it at any price. So I figured I might as well give it a shot. You would be hard pressed to find any evidence of what was done to it, it looks great and it plays as well as any National or NRP I own! He made a beautiful, compensated ebony fretboard, new frets, non-adjustable carbon truss rod and set the whole thing up for $250!! I told him that was way too cheap, but he wouldn't take any more (I tipped him $100). The absolute only slightly "bad" thing he did was replace the original cheap fret markers with mother of pearl markers that are the next size (slightly larger in diameter) up. He thought he was doing me a favor and tho I would have rather he used the original markers, I didn't say a word. You can see the slightly larger markers in the photo below. It's the bare metal one on the left...  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 18:02:59 GMT
Yes they are all fixable (except bakelite necks) using any of several methods...carbon fibre, truss rod, planing new fretboard, refretting with big frets, and yes some very legitimate luthiers believe in heat pressing...
|
|
|
|
Post by gaucho on Sept 17, 2020 21:09:13 GMT
Sorry Fred... didn't mean to 'jack the thread!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 22:49:10 GMT
Not at all. I got the info I needed. Always useful stuff posted. Wasnt a jack but with your photo was a jack queen king and ace full house...
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 18, 2020 8:05:28 GMT
Great tone does not come from bad geometry! Bad tone comes from bad geometry and also from messing with things that should not be messed with. There is no way these days that I would get a bakelite neck replaced, I would get it fixed.
I have seen guitars so called "improved" and unless those improvements are done by one of half a dozen people on this planet, the guitars will have lost their magical "something"
Shine On
Michael
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 21:27:07 GMT
Michael I don’t think there is a practical way to repair a warped upbowed Bakelite neck or worn Bakelite frets...although today there are some pretty amazing epoxy glues and coatings... and it might be possible to somehow drill a hole for a rod...but never heard of anyone doing it. Would love to have a straight neck on my Rickenbacher Electro Spanish
|
|
|
|
Post by blueshome on Sept 18, 2020 21:33:52 GMT
My friend Simon had a Triolian with a straight Bakelite neck and it was easily the loudest National I’ve heard.
|
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on Sept 19, 2020 9:59:45 GMT
Hi there !
The loudest reso I ever heard my a 1996 NRP Delphi.
That was until I had a baritone neck made for an ex-bakelite-necked Triolian.
Play a 9th chord, with a downwards hard strum/stroke with a thumbpick, fretting from 6th to 1st string - frets 7,7,6,7,7,7.
Wake up the dead ! The loudest, punchiest National I ever owned.
|
|
|
|
Post by hh1978 on Sept 27, 2020 21:06:30 GMT
Last time I went to Mike Lewis workshop, two years ago or so, he had a bakelite neck Triolian on consignement (well, maybe not exactly on consignement, but he mentionned the owner was selling it). I tried it and from what I remember it was in great shape. But to me it didn't sound really special (not bad, but not special, compared to the other vintage Triolian's of Mike), and I didn't like the feel of the neck, even though the geometry was right.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexkirtley on Sept 28, 2020 23:11:48 GMT
Has anyone ever tried to level the fingerboard of a bakelite neck guitar? I've done an operation like that to a few cheap classical guitars with bowed necks, getting the frets out and back in might be tricky, and bakelite can be a bugger to work well, I've had my share of old radios through my hands, but levelling a bakelite fingerboard might be a viable option
|
|
