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Post by Stevie on Oct 28, 2019 14:34:22 GMT
I work on the assumption that it is better to have an amplifier that is capable of driving loudspeakers clean rather than building in several margins of safety in terms of loudspeaker power handling. My logic here is that with all that capacity in reserve you can easily turn up the amp too loud causing the kind of distortion that any loudspeaker wouldn't thank you for. Witness your own AC30 Pete which probably runs to 32 watts at full tilt? yet the (very efficient) loudspeakers were rated at 15 watts each? On the face of it they appear to be rated to just beyond an inch of their lives, but as we know that is not the case in practice. Where this logic relates to us chasing the dragon of sweet break up I don't know, but from first principles I'm happy with lower rated loudspeakers related to amplifier output combined with a little restraint. I think that if I'm incorrect WRT guitar amps, I'm probably more on the button as regards "HiFi" amplifiers? Regarding single tone stacks, my Session 15-30 has a curious "mid bass" control which boosts bass frequencies turned one way, and boosts mid frequencies when cranked the other way. This sounds bizarre but works well in practice. www.award-session.com/pdfs/Award-Session%20History0007.pdfI imagine that copyright exists in a third party in that and a fair few others on that history page, and as such perhaps Award Session do not own the IP in it. I therefore hope that Mr. W is OK with such a link ... The Session 15-30 was ahead of its time in many respects. Documents 3-7 inclusive on the Award Session history web page relate to the 15-30, but I have linked to the late 1970s magazine review (7) that sparked my interest. Only around 400 15-30s were made. Mine's mint (as in largely unused!) e&oe ...
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Post by jono1uk on Oct 28, 2019 19:53:22 GMT
My new custom amp i have on order just has volume and tone ...
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Post by creolian on Oct 28, 2019 20:38:13 GMT
Read an interesting facebook post recently. Valve amps (circa 30w) sound best with the treble full and bass off, max volume! It's how Muddy Waters / Albert King etc set theirs. There is a 'scientific' reason for it too... TT Hey Deuce, I worked a few of Albert's shows at tipitinas in nola in the late 70s... he was using an Acoustic brand PA head and speaker... he had a set of louvered window shutters in front of his speaker ( to diffuse the blast ?) ... one thing for sure... it was cranked very loud and cut through everything. The acoustic ( I wanna say 360 ) system had a plastic horn over something like 6 10" speakers and the sound of his rig made a statement. I never worked a MW show but I saw him once at a tiny club and he blew the roof off as well. Edit: the amp albert was using was a solid state acoustic 270. 201 cab, Horn and 2 15" speakers. www.popscreen.com/prod/MTU3OTczMTAx/AcousticControlCorporation271201270comboGuitarAmplifierI have no idea what tone settings etc but the science with tone controls varies. Most single knobs are a variety treble cut only like Pete's vox. Other amps use a variety of boost, cut, phase relationship and other schemes depending on how many psychedelic experiences the designer had. The link in my earlier post has the schematics and the how of various small amp tone controls. Turning bass one way and treble the other is a recipe for comb filtering which is a result of phase relationships not being aligned. Comb filtering usually sounds bad but specific effects pedals are made to do it... whatever works ! One thing about every older bluseman Ive known, they ignore science and just twist away. Best, Jeff
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 28, 2019 21:17:45 GMT
As far as I know, on stage in his later years, mid 70s to early 80s, Muddy used two Fender Deluxe Reverb or two Super Reverb combo amps and generally everything was turned way up, including the bass. That was certainly the way things were when a good friend of mine back then was doing sound on a couple of his European tours.
Chuck Berry also used two amps wired together and turned up loud, but his were Fender Dual Showmans.
It is my belief that all this is interesting, but the main ingredient of any musician's sound is them and not their equipment.
Shine On Michael
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Post by jono1uk on Oct 28, 2019 21:18:52 GMT
A friend who is a fellow SRV Gear head advised of the following amp settings for my super reverb when i was chasing his tone
Set the amp on 7 Treble on 8 Mids on 9 Bass 2 Reverb to taste
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Post by pete1951 on Oct 28, 2019 21:24:11 GMT
The Session 15-30 was ahead of its time in many respects. Documents 3-7 inclusive on the Award Session history web page relate to the 15-30, but I have linked to the late 1970s magazine review (7) that sparked my interest. Only around 400 15-30s were made. Mine's mint (as in largely unused!) e&oe ...I have fond memories of Session Amps, though I don’t remember the tone control, it was the A/B switch that you could park in the middle and get clean and sustain channels at the same time. I tried the amp at gigs and was never really happy with it, the low volume tone was (for me)perfect. It reminded me of the SRV tone. Pete I have tried to replicate this recently with the help of my friend Barry (who runs AmpMaker) with an amp running a pair of EL34s and 6L6s, getting the clean sound to cut through has so far not been a success, Barry is back from a year travelling so maybe we will get it working!
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Post by Stevie on Oct 28, 2019 21:59:56 GMT
That tone control was a feature of the 15-30 valve / tube amp. I also have a Sessionette and it doesn't sport such a control. I like the A-B switch in the middle on the Sessionette too Pete. The Sessionette gets far more use, although I built "The Elevenator" attenuator that allows cranking the 15-30 (at the expense of accelerated valve wear) while missing out on loudspeaker compression. Beguiling but to be used with discretion.
Back to dual tone controls, the "mid-bass" control on the 15-30 is effective but like all these things it is easily lived without.
e&oe ...
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Post by mitchfit on Oct 28, 2019 22:02:08 GMT
Stevie,
you should check out some of the Quilter Tone Block amp reviews. they either come close or the guitar playing public is experiencing mass audio hallucinations.
the logistics benefits are obvious to even the most casual observer. would like to demo one myself.
have one of two Fender ultra chorus SS amps that still functions. it comes closer to emulating JPP's over-driven sound on the first zeppelin record than my 1624 clone amp fed just guitar signal. tells me that Jimmy's supro wasn't on an analog only diet...
not an SS hater, but these are the strong suits of SS to me, dirt at lower volumes [see pignose] or signal fidelity.
have a 15-30 watt EL 84/6BQ5 valve amp that seems a cure for a problem that doesn't exist. not much difference between too loud and way too loud. besides, wearing out the vocal cords of two singers in a a closely matched quartet will eventually create detriment.
through 4 efficient 125 watt 12" speakers my 2 X EL 34/KT 77 isn't way too loud(er) than a clipping 12 watt 6973 SE from that same cab. two different volume ratings exposed here, air and wattage.
a considerate person could spend considerable coinage on acoustic tiles to moderate sound levels for others in the house but they might end up just saying there isn't much difference between too loud and way too loud(er). to create an actual sound proof environment requires MUCH more $$$ than that.
i read an article on the web showing pictures of an oscilloscope screen that was hooked up to a fender champ. though the author went to length explaining how a 6V6 could create that kind of energy when it clipped, the shortcut answer is that tubes were initially used for hi-fi reproduction and rated for that level of amplification. wattage ratings only count when distortion will not be tolerated. when i say "great cleans" about a tube ~guitar~ amp, it implies hi-fi at levels just before clipping occurs from an amp "in the sweet spot". in fact, the swirling interweave of valve phasing harmonics is not even close to the original output from magnetic PUPs signal sent by the axe.
i like what is actually distortion of "cleans" for ~electric~ guitars and vocals, esp for recording. but when used in the sweet spot, i will not even invoke the F(idelity) word.
i don't use/recommend the MXR as a boost pedal. set the comp>delay>EQ and forget them as i can't even chew gum and play a guit simultaneously. there are ~subtle~ differences between one EQ'd signal altered by another EQ circuit with different parameters. subtle only.
i prefer to set volume at the above mentioned sweet spot. boost engages when tube signal clips due increased signal of the strings being hit harder.
this leaves one hand free to reach for a stick of gum when i stop playing the guitar.
the multiple gain stage trickery can be demonstrated by playing an axe with the volume pot all the way up into an amp with its volume set at a level you are comfortable with. then turn to guit volume to 1/2, and reset the amp volume at a level comparable to the previous.
mitchfit
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Post by mitchfit on Oct 28, 2019 22:31:00 GMT
"It is my belief that all this is interesting, but the main ingredient of any musician's sound is them and not their equipment."
absolute truth there. on the other hand you will never hear EC playing "Sunshine Of Your Love" at an unplugged concert.
mitchfit
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Post by blueshome on Oct 29, 2019 12:17:08 GMT
So where do we play where we can have a 30W valve amp turned right up? Personally I set the tone controls to suit the guitar and venue but I don’t think the volume has ever been above 4or5 even in a very large concert room. Just plug in and play, as they say, it’s the archer not the arrow
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Post by twang1 on Oct 29, 2019 12:36:54 GMT
I have a Gibson Goldtone amp that I bought new in 2001, 30 watts. It has 3 pots: a one-knob tone control, one for volume and one for reverb. That's it... It sounds wonderful and growling with my P-90 equipped guitar. Ampwise, my soundcheck lasts a few seconds! I also have an old Fender Super Reverb, with its classic fender sound. Also easy to adjust. Everybody has got its sound. Personally I want some "meat" and less treble. I can't stand amps with many knobs interfering with each other and too difficult to operate and understand. But I can tell you what a great guitarist in Austin adviced me to do to find a good sound with its Super Reverb: he raised volume and master way up and the tone controls down to zero. Then he started to raise little by little the tone controls until it sounded good to him.
Best sound I ever heard with a Fender? Ronnie Earl (way back at the Town and Country 2) with 2 Twins (!), a Strat and, of course, his magic hands! Frank
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Oct 29, 2019 13:19:55 GMT
I know this thread is about valve amps but I've just got to put these up as it's the guitar sound/tone I've lusted after for decades.
(bear with the bu88ering about before 1.50).
I know AFL's fingers are 90% of it but I'm off to see him, yet again, in Colchester next week.
Oh, Dave Bronze is one of my favourite bass players, too.
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 29, 2019 13:55:35 GMT
I saw Andy and the band in the summer at a festival I was playing at, and they were excellent. Andy has always been able to sprinkle fairy dust on every project he is involved with, he has great energy and is lovely to be around.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 14:05:05 GMT
My new custom amp i have on order just has volume and tone ... I have one of these...superb amp Warren H, Jeff B and a geezer named Eric among others swear by them...
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Post by Stevie on Oct 29, 2019 15:02:22 GMT
Dave Bronze that also played in BS#arp PD? ("Five Miles Above" and "The Trap"?) Dave is still sadly missed. It's no idle understatement to note that Jerry Stevenson is a phenomenal player too. I've seen very few players with such a grasp of harmony and scales ready at the fingertips like Jerry. Many memories there. Astonishing what you can see in tiny venues.
e&oe ...
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