12 String Sliding

[Deleted]

Anyone out there into 12 string slide playing? I'm thinking of getting one and would like to know what the
best 12 strings for slide are.

Bernie

[ChickenboneJohn]

Oh yeah...love 12 string slide. I use an old Yamaha FG-260 with way high action and a Lawrence A-300 soundhole pickup...awful for playing regular style, but great for bottleneck.....a free gift from my bass player. Nice full bassy sound, jangly top and plenty of volume.

I've also used Harmony Stellas...(good enough for Eric Bibb!)..in fact I'm repairing one right now. They aren't particularly loud, and the floating bridge can be a bit of a pain if you play really heavily (popping the strings out of the saddle slots), but they do have that nasty 50/60s funky vibe which I love so much. In my opinion it's just too uncool to have something like a new Taylor or Martin 12 for slide..depends on how much money you want to spend: personally I'd always rather save the money and spend it on jazz guitar lessons and CDs of obscure blues artists...but that's me for you. If you are a good player and money is no object, than I suppose it's got to be a new National 12 string hasnt it! But in my cynically biased opinion, I reckon you've really got to be able to cut the mustard to play in public with a National, there's nothing so sad as guy with a shiny £2000 guitar and no talent or ability. Alternatively get a Del' Arte Leadbelly Stella repro...again big bucks.

Personally, for slide I'd go for one of these old 'uns with plenty of action rather than spend a lot of money on anything fancy. Anything decent will have much to low an action and will only need tinkering with anyway. My buddy Doktor Hendrik uses a Simon and Patrick 12 for slide....relatively cheap with a respectable reputation if it upsets you not to play a "name" guitar.

[Mark]

Try one of the Dave King 12 Strings, Eric Bibb plays one of those as well. There are one or two on his website.

[Deleted]

Just remembered..Ralph Bown of York does a Leadbelly-style Stella repro..again serious money, not like my cheap and cheerful stuff. Where you start looking really does depend on how much you want to spend....

[Deleted]

I have tried some 12-string slide, but I was surprised to find that I was not as taken by it as I had expected to be. It was fun, but I kept drifting back to 6-string and I remember feeling lucky that I had not invested a lot in an expensive 12-string guitar! So perhaps the best way to do this would be to buy something reasonable but not "the best for slide", and see how you get on and make sure you want to pursue it. But if you are already an excellent player and are sure you want to go for 12-string slide, that's of course something else entirely.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the advise / help. I think I'm going to try and get a good copy of a Stella. I want to put heavy strings on it.

[MM]

Hi Bernie,

Blazer & Henkes make wonderful Stella copies. Here is a picture



www.antique-acoustics.de/de/katalog.htm

The only other Stella copies I have actually seen are the Ralph Bawn models, he makes a Leadbelly/Blind Willie McTell machine, he also makes the small bodied Barbecue Bob Stella 12 string. Very nice guitars. Ralph is a great luthier, his copies of vintage guitars are stunning. A friend of mine has a Blazer & Henkes Stella 12 string copy and I have to say that too is a superb guitar. It is very close to the original sound and beautifully built. Blazer & Henkes are fantastic at making repros of vintage guitars. Check 'em out!

Their 12 string is called 'Savannah' - I guess it is named after the Blind Willie McTell references to Savannah Mama.

Shine On,
Michael.

[Larry Conrad]

Hi Bernie,

Are you anywhere near London? The LRC has a row of cool 12 strings on display - lot of different models - and I think they will be having a big sale soon.

[Deleted]

Hi Larry / MM

Yeah - I have been to LRC before - it,s an amazing shop. Great range of guitars for the slidingly inclined.
I like the look of the Savannah from Blazer & Henkes. I think I'll check them out.

Bernie

[Andy S]

I must say I agree with one of the above and have not really got on with 12 string slide, its just a bit too cacophanous. Leo Kottke does it justice but I dont. Now take off the octave strings on the low strings, turn it into a nine string, and suddenly your into a whole new area. You can still get the clear bass notes, yet the top strings give that glassy chorussy sound. Still think that six strings kind of cut the mustard really.

As a post script to this, I have a world weary EKO 12 string which has had a hard life and I would like to either sell or swap for a cheapo resonator which I can do up. I have a Vintage Biscuit reso, which I love, Id also like a spider cone dobro, which I can put into other tunings. The neck is on the EKO is ok, it plays better with a high action , it has had a hasty (but strong) headstock repair, but more importantly it has a big sound, and a wide fingerboard which you could eat your dinner off! It also has that lovely orangey spruce colour that old EKOs have and others dont. Strung as a nine string, open G, and it sings. I'd love another reso, especially a spider bridge one for a different sound, but I a)havent got the ready cash, and more importantly b) just havent got the room! Plus having a nine/twelve for the limited use it would get just doesnt justify the extra ownership. If anyone is interested in doing a swap for my old EKO 12 string for a budget reso that you (or others) maybe dont get along with, would work as a spare reso, and you live within striking distance of North/West Yorks, reply to this and maybe we could strike a deal.

Andy S

[blackwell]

QUOTE FROM CHICKENBONE JOHN: "I reckon you've really got to be able to cut the mustard to play in public with a National, there's nothing so sad as guy with a shiny £2000 guitar and no talent or ability."

john, i think you have to "cut the mustard " to play in public with any guitar!! and there is nothing more sad as a guy with a crappy £10 guitar and having no talent or ability .

at least the guy with the national cant blame his guitar!!

[regular guest Victor Meldrew]

I always have a problem with this issue "there's nothing so sad as guy with a shiny £2000 guitar and no talent or ability." Mainly cos I feel I fit into this category!! I consider myself a beginner (despite having been trying to play for about 10 years) and a pretty rubbish one at that. However I scrimped & saved for a National Resophonic cos THAT was what I wanted to learn on. Bottom line is that I just love my guitars and will buy more, funds/family allowing - hopefully my kids will play better than me & inherit them. After all this time I'm just making the tentative first steps to jammin' with other people, making mistakes etc, and these sort of comments make me just want to sit alone at home (and gather the rubbish off my front lawn instead - that's the VM bit).
Come on guys, we need to encourage all whether it be with a £50 budget or a vintage (the age not the make!) worth £Ks.

[blueshome]

It's not the "no talent & ability" that's the problem, it's the perception that the guy THINKS he can play and sing because he has the shiny £2000 guitar.

[Deleted]

Sorry if my comments about having a fancy guitar have upset you, but I suppose if you've got to have National, you've just GOT to have one! However, I think it must be pretty intimidating to turn up at a session with your wonderful guitar, and people expect your playing to be just as flashy as your guitar! It sort of goes with the territory..rod for your own back and all that. I've never been able to afford top-dollar instruments (maybe because my 13 year old daughter has WAY more expensive guitars than me), and have always played instruments made or repaired by myself. I've got a pretty left-field taste in guitars anyway , so you can take my comments with a large pinch of salt.

No matter what guitar you play, jumping in at the deep end with experienced players in a jam is intimidating......but it gets less so with time, so do try it. At our local sessions and jams, beginners are always welcomed and encouraged, and I'm sure that's the case wherever true music enthusiasts gather. Don't delay, make up for those ten years of solitary playing, get out and play, either at your local blues jam, open mic., folk club or whatever. Also, have some lessons, go to workshops or courses..it all helps in getting you immersed in the subject and you'll realise that you aren't alone!

[blackwell]

this topic intrigue`s me cos, when do you know that you have the "talent and ability "to be able to go and play in front of people?
or is it just a case of "ego" or what?
i see lots of "ego" but not much "talent and ability"
oh, and curt buy a national 12 string tune it down to a B
then practice,practice,practice.......forever