aids to memorisation?

[bod]

Hi all,

As I plod along, trying to learn to play what I'm hearing (ear training? transcribing?), I find I can get a bit lost among the variations in the refrains, the differences in the repetitions, so to speak. You know, where what is basically more or less the same 'bit' comes around but is done differently at different points (p'raps on different strings, different positions, different emphases...) To be honest, I can find it pretty tough to work out what is going on, but that's not really what I'm asking about here, it is more 'how do you remember it (all)' once you have worked it out?

Maybe it is just a matter of keeping at it, over and over, 'til you have it? At the moment I've started experimenting with making notes - writing out the song (words) with plenty of spaces and then adding cues and directions, and then trying to follow my own directions, not sure it is helping (but maybe it is too early to say). Just wondered if any of you have this problem and might found your own ways of processing it, as hearing of these might prove useful.

thanks

[steadyrollinman]

Hi Bod,

My take on it:

The first thing is to get the song into your head. To the extent that you can be walking along the street and its playing in your head automatically. Surprisingly, your mind recalls all the little variations both in the vocal and the guitar accompaniment, without much effort on our part, the trick if anything is to listen to it a lot.

The next bit is the fun bit, getting the song from your head onto the guitar. Playing along with the recording helps enormously especially with the timing and getting the variations in order. I find that I do better if I don't think about it too much, then it kind of happens on its own.


As for the vocals, I find the best way to learn them is to write them down from listening to the record. Helps a lot.


Slow and steady and you'll be surprised how it all drops into place.

[gaucho]

I try not to get too hung up on playing it exactly like some other version I've heard. When I'm trying to work out a song (just did Crawlin' Kingsnake for example) I go on Amazon MP3 downloads and listen to and download all the versions of the song that I like (G-Love and Secret Sauce have a great version of Crawlin' Kingsnake that I would never have heard if not for this method!). I listen to them over and over and take little pieces of the songs I really dig and figure out how to play something similar. It's fun and you end up with a pretty unique version, Now part of this desire to play my own version is because don't want to copy anyone and another part is because I don't have the musical knowledge or skills to work it out exactly anyways! The other thing that really helps in to record (I have a Tascam DR100, like a Zoom H4n) little verses and riffs as I work them out so I can remember what I did.

It's amazing. as I get older, I can still remember every word to some obscure song from the 70's ( "Love is like Oxygen" came on the radio the other day and I sang every word!). But I have to work pretty hard to remember the words to some song I'm trying to work out a version of. And speaking of that, I find that knowing the words and singing a song is a huge help in figuring out how to play it.

[slide496]

The only thing I do to memorize is I play the song maybe 3-8 times one after another in a sitting, with maybe 2 or three sessions in the day. After a point the brain seems to say "I don't want to be bothered with a tab its going to slow me down. Don't bother me with that." Sometimes it will do that in pieces. It's pretty mechanical. Play it. Ok play it again. And again...

[mitchfit]

The absent-minded maestro was racing up New York’s Seventh
Avenue to a rehearsal, when a stranger stopped him. “Pardon
me,” he said, “can you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?”

“Yes,” answered the maestro breathlessly. “Practice!”

an uncertain origin of above quote, but not ~my~ words.

joking aside, think about the fastest finger picking lick you know.
chances are good that your brain couldn't think or read the same
passage as fast as you play it. continuing on that thought further,
it would therefore have to be something that was ingrained from
practice.

mitchfit

[Michael Messer]

Hi Bod,

It is true that the only way to remember and hold on to pieces that you play, is to play them a lot. So much of practicing a musical instrument is about repetitive movements over and over again that eventually lock into the brain and can be called on at any time. It becomes a subconscious action like driving a car. There is no substitute for practice, it is the only way.

If I don't play a particular piece of music for a while, I need to work at getting the recall back to be able to play it without thinking.

With pieces or songs that I have been doing regularly for most of my life, that I perform on stage; if I start thinking about it while I am playing it, such as...'what comes next?', I am lost and I can forget what to sing or play. So those songs/pieces are so ingrained in me that they are coming from my subconscious and I am convinced that is where the music comes from, when it is flowing naturally without conscious effort. That subconscious recall and memory of playing musical pieces, is an essential part of it.

Try it with one piece of music or song; play it as much as you can everyday for a week and you will notice a difference. Sometimes when I am learning or copying an old recording, I listen to it over and over and over again, literally dozens of times until I have a recording of it locked into my brain's hard drive. Then when I try to play it I know it so well that I can recall all the parts and that makes it easier to play. Sometimes when I am studying a player's style, I spend hours, days and maybe even weeks, listening to, playing along with, and generally working at decoding a recording. I can get quite obsessive about this and eventually have to force myself to listen to something else!

Shine On
Michael.

[mitchfit]

..."So those songs/pieces are so ingrained in me that they are coming from my subconscious and I am convinced that is where the music comes from, when it is flowing naturally without conscious effort."...

..."a recording of it locked into my brain's hard drive"...

WELL SAID MICHAEL!!!

you scored a bull's eye on the concept that i just
couldn't put my finger on. i think your reference to
computer terminology is also a brilliant way to try
to describe the brain functions that are involved.


as per Michael's posting, the music has to be coming
from subconscious thought, while all of our conscious
thoughts are set on "sleep mode", in keeping with the
computer terms.

that is the fallacy of my above posting. it HAS TO
BE the brain controlling the body, just not working
in the standard "operating system parameters".

if all of our front brain thoughts are allowed back
in, things like our desire to get the song right,
what caused some peripheral noise or movement, is
that string out of tune...(etc) will break down the
"firewall" that is protecting the "saved song data
sequence".

then all is lost and our worries about blowing it
will quickly become self fulfilling prophesy, or
"computer crash".

mitchfit

[bod]

Many thanks for the thoughtful – and thought-provoking – responses. There's a ton of broadly philosophical stuff hereabouts that I'd love to get into, but this (probably) isn't the forum for it

What I will say is that by and large the comments have been very encouraging, as they seem to suggest that I have mostly been doing the rights sorts of things. Thinking about said comments has also led me to gain a different view of my predicament.

Long story short: the idea of getting the song to play automatically in my head as I go about my business - this gave me loads to think about, because something like this happens a lot, but funnily enough not quite as might be expected.

For example, throughout cycling to work and back and 3 hours physical labour there really was hardly a moment that wasn't accompanied by 'You Gotta Move', it even seemed to drive the speed and rhythm of my walking (etc).

However, what I did come to notice - reflecting on various of the comments here - is 1) that it was mainly fine for the first verse plus the guitar refrains from before and after and 2) after that the details were sort of patchy, as if I were wandering in and out of range... Rightly or wrongly I'm currently (and speculatively) linking this to the facts 1) that although I love vocals I've never really been much of a one for paying a great deal of attention to lyrics, if you see what I mean, and, 2) as far as I can recall, I don't I've actually even tried to sing out loud since I was in junior school (where the music teachers instructed me to mime in order to improve my class's prospects in a local inter-school singing competition ). Add to this my growing acceptance of the idea that blues is, at heart, a vocal form and blues guitar, in origins at least, a form of accompaniment for and interaction with voice (a point that my pal Peter and I were quite palpably struck by as a result of beholding Louisiana Red's fine performance at Southport a few years ago) and I at least feel like I have a clue...

I think I'll stand a better chance of practising aright if I learn the songs as songs. So this afternoon and evening - while the family were out - I've been "putting the theory into practice" and singing (out loud, no less!) along with Fred McDowell over and over (put him on a loop) and then slowing him down to 70% speed (isn't software marvellous) and trying to play along. Too early to be sure, but it feels like I'm making progress to me... I infer I'll know more when I've done all this obsessively, several times a day for weeks...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, can't quite help a few asides:

Re. the primacy of practice - my own favourite (if slightly fanciful) practice fable:

The artist was renowned for his drawing abilities. Challenged one day, he drew a circle freehand - in which no imperfection could be found. An astounded bystander commented on the difficulty, near-impossibility of the feat. The artist replied, 'But, my friend, you misunderstand, it is not difficult at all, it is very easy. In fact, anyone who practised drawing circles, several hours a day, for 20 years or so could do it'.

That thought - and plenty of precedent of oldies playing the blues - gives me hope that given enough years I just might get to play as well as I'd like to

Skilled performance – like the proverbial iceberg, 90% of it is below the surface - or 90% under the radar of conscious thought, if you prefer. Even so, IMO, a fair amount of conscious thought and reflection tend to be involved in the acquisition of the ability to perform well, especially in the earlier stages. That said, once the skills and abilities have been acquired (too much) thinking can certainly make for trouble. This all seems to be true enough whether we are talking about riding a bike, throwing a pot or playing a guitar or...

Computer models of human activities: fine as metaphor, but I can't take 'em literally (philosophical objections - you probably don't want to get me started... )

[televiking]

This story is a bit off topic, but on the other hand sums up what playing the same song over and over might lead to.

I was playing a gig one night, and got really "into it", kind of forgetting who I was and so on. Anyhow I started a song, and in the middle of one chorus I realised suddenly, snapping back to myself, that I had absolutely NO IDEA how many verses I had already sung. I know I was singing the chorus, but had I sung one verse? Two? Three??
I had a panicky thought process in about one second's time (felt like a year...), and since I was NOT going to ask the audience "errrmm... how many verses have I sung?" I decided conciously to drop back to autopilot mode and let the song sort itself out.
Afterwards I listened to the gig (I always record my gigs) and could not find out which chorus it was where I got lost. All verses were there, not a sign of hesitation anywhere. Although I felt terrified when I got lost there was no evidence of it on the recording.

I guess I'm trying to say that when you play some song enough times, your body and your subconcious mind knows its way around, without your conscious thinking.

[blueshome]

Blues is a vocal music. You can have fun just playing the guitar parts if that's what rocks your boat but 90% of the song is missing.

Don't despair about singing.Very few people are "natural' singers, it needs as much practice as any other instrument .

As to learning, Transcribe if a great aid - try it if you haven't already.

[slide496]

Oct 8, 2013 18:17:12 GMT blueshome said:

Blues is a vocal music. You can have fun just playing the guitar parts if that's what rocks your boat but 90% of the song is missing.

Don't despair about singing.Very few people are "natural' singers, it needs as much practice as any other instrument .

As to learning, Transcribe if a great aid - try it if you haven't already.

IMHO a guitar or a resonator is always designed to play music, the human voice one is given may or may not be. I don't agree that it 90 percent of the music is missing without vocal as we only have a body of recorded work some which was selectively recorded for sales purpose at the time. That assumes that the bluesmen didn't do instrumental jams or play instrumentals off record. And much of the guitar work was brilliant and a rich tapestry of sounds and tachniques many of which are unique and cannot be duplicated.

And also am of the opinion that the die hard vocalist stance has some points to be learned from and I wish the people who were committed to the vocalist approach would work together in a more positive manner with instrumentalists as there is both an audience for instrumental blues and a large number of people who are blues instrumentalists. If not, then I wish they would group together and separate themselves, produce the best music they can with vocals, and leave the instrumentalsts in the field to do similar so that as musicians we have both forms.

What I've often heard in so many words from vocalist/bluesmen who criticize the instrumental approach and maybe I am being too sensitive is that instrumentalists are lesser musicians than them and of that group those who don't learn from source are on the lowest rung and I can't find much constructive in that.

[blueshome]

Seems we've touched nerve.

Do a little historical research, the blues has always been over-ridingly a vocal music from its earliest days right up to the era of electric Chicago blues. It's not just what was on record, read the accounts of Son House about Charley Patton performing. If you see film of these guys playing in a club the interaction with the audience is what it's about.

As I said, if the instrumental side is what rocks your boat and gives you pleasure then that's great and if you can keep an audience entertained doing that (assuming that is what you want to do) so much the better. I don't understand why we would want segregation between folk who sing and accompany themselves and those who don't sing but only play, surely it's fun to play with others from time to time.

The point being made above was that someone was learning to put things together with vocals and not finding it easy - I was merely saying practice the vocals as much as the guitar.

[slide496]

I have been reading the Son House bio and I used to go over to Al Wilson's house when we were in high school and we would play together with him on harmonica and myself on guitar to his harmonica in Arlington. He introduced me to Johnson and others so I am familiar with the music some. I have seen live - including Son House, Libby Cotten, Rev Gary Davis and exchanged a few words with some of the elder bluesmen, including Mance Lipscomb and Howling Wolf, and I am sure other members have as well. Whether or not the blues was and is historically a vocal medium doesn't make any difference to me. I don't see any reason for not developing strictly guitar arrangements as stand alone performance pieces. Some people will be interested in hearing them, some not. I am trying to sing to communicate the music in a way that people accept it, but its not my first love and the drive isn't as strong.