busker delta v MM blues (12f)

[Deleted]

You may have noticed both on ebay right now, both ending circa 3 days, one currently about half the price of the other. Anyhow, are the two generally very comparable, almost identical even?
Cheers
TT

[Wyzzy93]

Having tried both, I prefered the Delta. It sounds somewhat brighter, maybe because it is not painted. Of course I have played only one of each so it may be down to the setup of each individual guitar. They both sounded sweet, but I kept the Delta.

[Deleted]

Good point about the paint (I see another topic brewing) - any relation to paint on a tricone bridge?
My MM is stripped and sounds great, but I didn't play it much before I stripped it, so I can't remember how it sounded...
TT

[wolvoboy]

i stripped my MM Blues and it was nickel plated underneath it did sound different, now its painted again with probably more paint than before,it sounds warmer to me now.but would the nickel plating make a difference with paint on as to bare steel painted
wolvoboy

[Michael Messer]

A couple of points about the comments on this thread.....

Point 1: The paint on the body of an MM Blues does not affect the sound in any way. Like original Nationals, they only have a thin coat of paint which really cannot affect anything, other than the look of the instrument. The paint on the T-bridge of Busker and Republic Tricones is a whole different thing and does stifle the sound because it is in direct contact with the cones and bridge saddle.

Point 2: The early Busker Delta guitars are nothing like MM Blues guitars, but the later ones are, and that is the reason they were discontinued.

Early Deltas did not have tapered bodies, they had different 'f' holes and on the very early ones the sound well had holes drilled all the way round like a National mandolin. There were other differences too, but I would need to check the two original specifications to list them all.

As time went by and with my involvement, Busker guitars went through a series of design changes which made them different from Republics, but similar to MMs. With the Delta, the two instruments became so close that there was no longer any need for the Busker Delta to be part of the Busker range.

Point 3: Wolvoboy, I do not believe that the yellow paint on your guitar affected the tone. As I have said many times on this forum; every time the resonator is moved, or taken out and put back, it affects the whole make-up of the instrument and in many cases (not always) 'something' changes. In the case of your MM Blues, its tone has become warmer.

A couple of years ago I had to do a little job on my Fine Resophonic Koa Triolian (my main guitar). I waited until Mike Lewis (Mr Fine Resophonic, and the man who made the guitar) was coming to visit and I arranged with him to do the job while he was staying with me. The guitar had only been opened once in 2001 since it was built in 1998. A few days before Mike arrived I started de-tuning the guitar a quarter tone each day, so that by the time he arrived it was down from DGDGBD to CFCFAC.

Mike opened the guitar and did the little adjustment as carefully as he possibly could, and did everything possible not to disturb anything. We didn't even clean the very dusty cone. The guitar was put back together and carefully strung and tuned back up to pitch. It sounded absolutely fine, but when I went out and did my first gig with it I noticed some very slight changes in its tone. To cut a long story short, I reckon it took a few months to completely settle back and be exactly as it was before it was opened.

I do not believe Wolvoboy's paint affected the tone, but I do believe that dismantling the guitar for a few days is what did it.

My point here is really just to say - please don't start stripping the paint off of MM guitars thinking that it will improve the tone. With the help of three of the world's leading experts on this subject (each with our own expertise, experience and knowledge), Robin, Mike Lewis and Mark Makin, I am constantly looking at ways and making adjustments to improve my MM guitars, and removing the grey paint from the plated steel bodies is not one of them.

Shine On
Michael.

[wolvoboy]

Hi Michael
hope you had a good time over their in Croatia,you could be right about the paint not affecting the tone of my MM Blues,after i finished painting it i put it back together and left it for a week for the paint to harden off before playing it now its all settled down its been played a lot ,also i think the colour might be something to do with it,psychologically ,looks warm so it feels warm,its a lot nearer in tone now to my Duolian, getting better all the time.
wolvoboy

[Wyzzy93]

Very interesting points Michael. I did wonder what the differences between the two guitars actually was, I assumed the paint would make a difference to the sound.
I have had this Delta in pieces a few times and noticed slight differences when reassembled.
I would like to try another MM blues sometime and no doubt will.
I would love to see a photograph of the totally stripped MM and also the one you repainted Wolvoboy.
I'll just add that I haven't played one of these guitars that I didn't like the sound of yet.

[wolvoboy]

back with stencil
wolvoboy

[Wyzzy93]

Wow, nice paintwork, I was not expecting that! How did you paint it?

[wolvoboy]

Hi, i sprayed it with white under coat and then colour,made the stencils my self,it turned out better than i expected,hopefully in time it will wear nicely
wolvoboy

[paulnb57]

So, are all the Blues nickel plated under the paint?

Im struggling to choose between the MM Blues, the Lightning and the Busker Sidewalk all sorts of different reasons, are the Biskers built to the same standard as the MM Models?

Cheers!

Paul

[Michael Messer]

Hi Paul,

The Busker Sidewalk is a 14 fret brass-bodied single cone guitar. There is not a 14 fret brass-bodied single cone MM guitar, only the 12 fret brass-bodied single cone MM Lightning. The steel-bodied MM Blues (14 fret and 12 fret) are nickel-plated under the paint. They are all built to the same high standards, but the models are different in design and specs.

Thanks for your interest,

Shine On
Michael.

[paulnb57]

Thanks for the reply Michael, I think a phone call to Buskers on Monday is on the cards, with debit card in sweaty grasp!

Cheers!

Paul

[Michael Messer]

My pleasure, Paul.

Shine On,
Michael

[Matt]

Just to put some perspective on this Delta/Blues question, while I'm not an expert, I've played 2 MM Lightnings and 2 MM Blues all together in one sitting and compared them. They ended up, in order of preference, coming:

1) Blues #1
2) Lightning #1
3) Blues #2
4) Lightning #2

As Michael often points out, these instruments are made in a very similar manor to original nationals in that they're hand made in small batches, not by CNC machine, and so there's a lot of variation between instruments compared to, for example, NRP instruments, which you'd expect to be quite consistent.

Basically, even if someone's tried a Delta and a Blues and found one to be better than the other, it says nothing about anything other than those two instruments. Even amongst one model there's so much variation in character that you just have to try for yourself and see if it fits your preference.