Dean Heirloom Resonator Guitar

[Deleted]

Hi Michael

Great site with loads of answers to my many questions. I've looked through the previous post about sub £500 guitars and was hopeful you might have an opinion on the Dean Heirloom Resonator?

Any other members who have tried / bought one and who have any info to offer would also be welcomed.

Pony

[Michael Messer]

Hi Pony,

You are very welcome to our forum. I have not had my hands on a Dean Heirloom, so it would not be right for me to comment. I am sure there are forum members who have played them and hopefully they will give us their opinions.

Keep in touch and let us know which guitar you do decide to buy.

I like your Avatar!

Shine On,
Michael

[robn]

Hi Pony,

I've not had a chance to play the Dean Heirloom yet and would also be interested in the experiences of any forum members who have.

Looks like Dean make 2 Heirloom models - one with a solid brass body and one with a solid copper body. I have not heard of a reso made from copper before so an a/b comparison of the two would be interesting.

I found this info on a web site discussing Irish whistles:

Brass is a mixture of Copper and Zinc with minute traces of lead. (The Lead content is usually between .05&.07 %) It has a lighter, yellowish color and does not tarnish as darkly as copper does. Copper is softer than Brass. The resulting difference in sound is that Brass usually has a brighter sound while the Copper is more mellow and round. The individual voicing of each whistle can dramatically effect the sound as well so you may not notice the difference when comparing 2 whistles. For the Low D whistles, the Brass is lighter to hold, but the copper seems to have a deeper resonance.

And this info on a site discussing the tones produced by tuning forks of different alloys:

Each of the tuning forks has a distinctive ring. The dense copper alloys have a lower pitch, while the stiff steel alloys have a higher pitch. One can hear clear differences between brass, bronze, copper, and copper-beryllium.

It would be interesting to hear if there is a noticable difference between the two Dean bodies - The above info would suggest that copper would be "warmer" than brass - we already know that brass is "warmer" than steel.

Sorry Pony - the above is not much use to you in deciding how these guitars compare to other budget resos But I think the solid copper body is unusual enough to justify a slight detour in this thread - and you may yet find a forum member who has played one.

Robn

PS - I've had a scan round the net and there is very little info on these guitars.

[Deleted]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the reply and the info on the the Brass / Copper differences. My first thought as a novice who is about to buy my first Resonator, was that the Brass or Copper Heirloom by Dean would mainly be cosmetic - but you have given me more to ponder over now !

I have also had a good look around the net and have had little success in finding any reviews. I have managed to find the Guitar for below £300 - a saving of over £160 - just need to find one to try now !

Pony

[Michael Messer]

Hi Pony,

As I said I haven't seen the Heirloom, but if I had to choose between brass and copper, I think I would go for the brass. It is a more tried & tested metal than copper for a resophonic guitar.

Robn, your advice & info about the metals is excellent.

Let us know what you get,

Shine On,
Michael

[robn]

Hi Pony,

Michael is right that brass is a safer bet - it is a tried and tested material for reso guitars and there are plenty of 70 year old brass bodied Nationals still in daily use (although nickel plating is the normal finish - I'm unsure what Dean mean when they say "distressed" finish). Brass is a more stable material than copper - which is why we have brass plaques on buildings not copper plaques.

Also, since I wrote the above, I found a question (no reply) on the Dean company forum from an owner of one of the copper guitars asking how he should clean it, as it was going green where he has sweated on it At least it shows that the guitar actually is solid copper ;D

Robn

[Deleted]

Hi Robn,

Thanks for the info. It has got me really thinking now - and with the info that Michael supplied!

I scanned the net for some other info on the Dean, and was was 'alarmed' at the post on the Dean forum when I found it! The verdigris according to a Google search, 'Can be removed by soaking the metal in a hot solution of sodium sesquicarbonate and water' !!!!! Not what I would like to do to a new (or an old) Resophonic !

I also found a post in the forum with the sound clip of you 'noodling' around on the Johnson JW995. I was very impressed with the sound even though it was very inexpensive. I only wish that the neck joined at the 14th fret not the 12th As I am a newbie to the whole Resophonic / Slide Delta Blues thing (at least the playing anyhow) and not really having any clue what to get, I guess I'm easily impressed with any sound !! Oh to have some cash to buy a '30's National.......... ;D

Still wanna try a Dean though!

[robn]

Hi Pony,

I was very impressed with the Johnson JW995 for the price. The spun Continental cones that Johnson are putting in their range of guitars at present would seem to work well, and the general set up of the guitar I tried was perfectly good for bottleneck slide. However, wood bodied biscuit bridge guitars have a different tone to metal bodied guitars – yet another choice for you to make. You’ll have seen from the rest of that Johnson thread how important the set up is on reso guitars – and that is the lottery you enter when buying a budget model.

It is a pity that Dean do not give details on their web site about the cones they use – perhaps you could try emailing them? There is a chance that they use reasonable quality spun cones as a lot of guitar companies’ source from the same manufacturing plants.

I’ve not been playing slide for that long and, after some research, I bought a Resound Blues (£375) that I’ve owned for about two and a half years. I’ve upgraded it with a National Resophonic cone and made a new maple saddle, and, to be quite honest, it does the job I want it to do very well. I play it at sessions in our local pubs and on the seafront (summer and winter!). I’d love to own a beat up old National Duolian to do the same job (and eventually I will) but I can’t justify to myself buying a more up market new guitar (Amistar or National Resophonic) while this one continues to be such a great little workhorse.

There are many more budget reso guitars available now than there were even just a couple of years ago when I bought mine – and the quality of some is very good for the price you are paying. However, if you want to guarantee that you purchase a well set up, good sounding guitar, it may be worth talking to one of the luthiers like Pete Woodman or Dave King who are specialists in upgrading reso instruments – the set up is just so important to both playability and tone. You may be lucky with a brass Dean, but it would be good to hold some funds in reserve for setting up whatever guitar you buy if it needs work.

Pony, I note that you say you are new to reso guitars. I'm only a few years ahead of you but one thing I have found out is just how different reso guitars are from your standard Dreadnaught. It’s like comparing a trumpet and a trombone – both brass wind instruments but requiring a quite different playing technique and each has it’s own distinct musical place - yes, resos really are that different.

I find my guitar chooses the songs it wants to play – and it loves Delta blues. Also, resos are bloody loud – great for pub playing and busking but inappropriate use can tear apart jam sessions! Most are hard to fret and don’t strum (unless swing vamped or mandolin “chopped”). Plus you need to learn to use finger picks.

In term of chicken and egg, I think the heavy nickel strings and high action to be found on cheap 1920s ladder braced guitars caused players to find open tunings and open cord shapes, use picking patterns rather than strumming and learn to play slide – the guitars of the time shaped the blues as much as the blues musicians chose the guitars. When reso guitars came a long – their volume for the street corner and juke joints sealed the deal.

I didn’t really know what I was getting into when I bought my first reso – but I’m very glad that I did. ;D

Robn

PS - Why are you only considering 14 fret guitars?

[Deleted]

Hi Robn,

Once again, thanks for all the info you are giving me - I really appreciate it. With a bit more searching on the Dean Heirloom, I found this reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Dean+Guitars/Heirloom+Brass+Resonator/10/1

Seems to have a good review by an end user, and a good overall score, even if it is a bit of a heavy beast.

I've also found a place in Cambridge that has three resophonic guitars in stock - Countryman Pro Tricone (£439.99), SX Resonator RG1 FS (£189.99) and a Jay Turser Electric Resonator (£229.99). None of these are what I was really after, but I'm taking the best advice ever - go and try them out. The shop will also order a Dean for me if I decide to take the plunge, but I need to try and find one to play first. !

In response to the question about the 12th / 14th fret thing, I don't think I was very clear. I would prefer to have a guitar with a neck that joins the body at the 14th fret so that when playing close to the body with a slide, I've got a bit of room at the octave. Does that make sense? I know it's not a big thing, its just a preference. I don't really want a resophonic with a cutaway !

I've sort of set aside some cash for a proper set-up. Don't really have any idea how much a new cone, saddle and nut will cost. I do wish the London Resonator Centre was still going - I feel a trip there would have been very worthwhile

Still more to think about, but can't wait to go to Cambridge and try my first Reso ;D All with the blessing of the 'Long Haired General'

Pony

PS I ain't got one yet and I'm already addicted !!!!!!

[robn]

Hi Pony,

Good luck on your trip to the shops - I hope you find something good to play. It is very difficult to track down somewhere that has a good collection of reso guitars now that the LRC has folded.

Don't dismiss 12 fret models without trying some (if you can find any ). They can be just as comfortable to play slide on, and the slightly longer bodies (compared to 14 fret models) give a different tone.

A National Resophonic cone is about £65 with a new biscuit bridge; but if the guitar you buy is fitted with a Continental cone I doubt that you would feel the need to change the cone - they are really very good.

Robn

[Deleted]

If you need any modifications then Dave King is is still around at Luthiers Corner (above where LRP used to be). He used to do all the LRP work anyway. ;D I'm pretty certain his workshop also stocks other reso's, so may be worth a trip to the 'smoke' anyway to try a few out.

[tark]

I know the Dean website clearly says these guitars are made either of brass or of copper but it really doesn't go into much detail.

I'm wondering if the 'copper' model is really made of copper plated steel. I reckon copper sheet would be too soft to make a reso body. On the other hand steel is commonly used to make reso bodies and part of the process to nickel plate it, is to first plate it in copper. It seems to me that Dean have just indulged in some cost cutting by buying partially finished Chinese bodies. Some in unplated brass and some in copper plated steel, then antique 'finished' them with an acid wash and a spot of lacquer.

[Deleted]

I HAVE played the Dean Heirloom guitars. I haven't tested the bodies for being magnetic, but my bet is that the finish is applied over a steel body. They are very heavy, they play and sound OK, but I'd qualify that by adding 'if you can get one at a good price'. The headstock is non-trad style (that may or may not put you off), and I must admit that aged finish does look pretty cool...but as I say, I reckon it's purely cosmetic over a steel body - they could be brass, but the overall weight and sound says steel to me.

[Zeadle]

admin said:

Hi Pony,

As I said I haven't seen the Heirloom, but if I had to choose between brass and copper, I think I would go for the brass. It is a more tried & tested metal than copper for a resophonic guitar.

Robn, your advice & info about the metals is excellent.

Let us know what you get,

Shine On,
Michael

[zeadle]

Pony, don't know if you took the plunge on the copper Dean but I can tell you that I own one, tired it first in a local shop then found it new on Ebay for about half the price (including shipping from U.S. to Canada). I also could find very little literature on it, I compared it against a few others of similar price in a few shops, liked the tone and volume, was sold on the looks. The quality seems good, built like a tank, my first time with a resonator and playing slide so I don't have any experience to rate it against other resos - maybe its just because its a new toy with a new sound, but I love the thing! It is DEFINITELY magnetic - could hardly pull the magnet off of it, so the poster who thought it was copper plated steel must be right. Good luck with your search and your eventual choice!

Zeadle