Looking after a Resonator

[deanswood]

Hi,

I am new to the world of resonator guitars and was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to look after one. I know care must be taken to keep the cone in place but have no idea about how to best look after a resonator.

Any links, information or ideas would be gratefully appreciated.

Dean

[mirrormist]

Hello Dean:)

I am sure you will get lots of good advice here....but I just dust and polish occasionally...a non abrassive metal cleaner very occasionally, perhaps when i am gonna put a guitar back in it's case for a while...all purpose or a beeswax spray polish mostly just a dust though it pretty much depends on the guitars finish and how lazy I am feeling

Regards

[deanswood]

Cool but I was really wondering what the deal is with thecone and changing strings and things like that. Do I need to make sure I keep some tension in there when changing strings so it doesn't move or is it easy to put back into place?

Thanks

Dean

[robn]

Hi Dean,

Welcome to the forum - and the fascinating world of resophonic guitars. I'm only a few years into exploring reophonics myself - There are many very experienced reso players and luthiers who watch this forum so you will always find someone with the knowledge to help

The cone "floats" in the soundwell and is only held firmly in place by the downward pressure of the strings. This is a strong enough force to hold the cone very securely whilst playing. Even for the most energetic players like Son House

Change your strings one at a time and the cone will stay exactly where it is.

It is easy to put the cone back in place if you happen to loosen all the strings at the same time. If the cone starts to buzz (which can sometime happen for no apparent reason!) players may loosen all the strings, wiggle the cone a little, then re-tension the strings. This is called re-seating the cone. If you have loosened all the strings, just check that the bridge is at 90 deg to the strings and centered in the coverplate hole before re-tensioning (tip - tension the middle strings first so the cone stays where you want it).

If the guitar is playing well, it's best to leave the cone seated where it is - hence the advise about changing your strings one at a time.

Resonator guitars are pretty tough and should last a lifetime. Unlike regular acoustics, which rely for sound on the quality of their tonewood, even the cheapest resonators can be improved by careful upgrading of the parts into great little guitars. (Tip - if you are going to change your strings try Michael Messer's National Newtone sets. Strings have a big impact on the sound and playability of your guitar).

Feel free to come back with any other questions Dean.

Robn

[davey]

I think they're generally less bother than a wooden guitar, all the important bits can be easily removed and sorted out if something goes haywire.

As was mentioned, I don't whip all the the strings off at once though in case something happens.

Just to disagree with the "Heaviest strings are best' brigade, I find 52 to 15 are good for the bottom 5, then another 15. Sound good with a slide and okay for fingers too.

[Ted]

I too use the newtone reso strings - michael messers 15's.
Just out of curiosity - do you guys all use these?
What did you use before they came along?

Would they be too heavy for open A tuning?

[faceless]

I use Rotosound stings. I buy the through www.highlystrung.co.uk. The great thing about highly strung is that you can buy each sting individually and make up your own sets.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Ted,

Welcome to the forum.

We started Michael Messer Newtone National Strings 15 years ago in 1992, and it goes without saying that I have used them on all my guitars since then.

For the first few years we did not have the use of the National Reso-Phonic logo, but that has been on our packaging since 1998. Regarding your question about what players used before MM Newtone Nationals, I used to use Martin Bronze Strings on my Nationals. I used to replace the top 13 with a 15 (which was a Rotosound or Ernie Ball, depending on what was available). On my electric guitars I used D'Addarios. It is so long ago that I can hardly remember all the different brands I tried.

Without going into it too much, Newtones are very different to Rotosound, Martin, Ernie Ball, D'Addario, or any other mass produced brand out there. That was the whole point of starting the National Guitar Strings - because the core is round, it comes up to pitch at slightly less tension, but still has the mass to vibrate and get the cone singing. They are also more pliable and long lasting. They are hand-made (literally each string is hand wound) and that creates a beautiful product that has more than just a round core.

I often tune 15 to 56 gauge strings up to EBEG#BE, GBDGBD and EAEAC#E on resonator guitars - the strings take those tunings without any problems. BUT > I would be careful about what guitar you do that on. What instrument do you have?

Oh, one last comment in response to Faceless - Newtone will supply single individual strings and make up sets of any gauge and core thickness you require. I sometimes use a 65 bottom E string on my electric lap steel. Core thicknesses make a lot of difference, especially if you are tuning up high.

Shine On,
Michael.

[robn]

Hi Ted,

Each guitar is set up differently and each cone make is also slightly different in alloy thickness and height, so, as Michael indicates it’s impossible to know if your guitar can be tuned up to open A with 15-56 Newtones without actually seeing it.

There are a couple of things that “tuning up” will effect on a reso. The first is neck tension, and most guitars’ necks should be able to cope with MM National Newtones 15-56 in open A for short periods (just tune back to “standard” before putting the guitar away). The second is the downward pressure on the cone. This is “controlled” by the break angle of the strings over the bridge.

Scott Ainslie plays regularly in open A on his National using a standard set of medium strings 13-56. BUT he has a very fine break angle on his guitar, which gives him just the right downward pressure on the cone. He can run a lower action (reducing the break angle) because the increased string tension of open A keeps his slide off the frets (I only know this coz someone on another forum actually emailed Scott about this issue and posted his reply).

There is a fairly simple test you can do yourself. Tune to open G and play your guitar. Then tune to open G# and play again. Listen to the difference. If the volume and sustain improve then continue up to open A and test again. If the volume or sustain (sustain is probably the best indicator) start to deteriorate at G# or A, then you are starting to “choke” the cone, so for your guitar’s present set up you would need lighter strings for open A.

My guitar loved open A with 15-56 strings when it had a Quarterman cone fitted (it was pants in open G). But it just starts to “choke” in open A with the same strings now I have a National Resophonic cone (which is slightly thinner and taller). To use open A effectively with 15-56 strings, I really need to reduce my break angle to suit the new cone. My compromise solution has been to use MM Newtone 13-56 strings (about 9 lb less pressure just by changing the first string from a 15 to a 13), which allow the widest range of tuning possibilities for my particular guitar in its current set up. Though I must say that I still notice that open G has better sustain than open A, but open A is just usable with 13-56 Newtones. As my technique has improved I’ve been able to tease a solid tone from a 13 first string in both open G or open D, and am not missing the .15.

As you can see, asking if MM National Newtones will tune up to open A is a pretty complicated question – and its taken me about 18 months of research and trials to get my head round it just on my own guitar!

Robn

[1928triolian]

Hi Robn,
very interesting post, maybe the argument would deserve a thread on its own...
What do you exactly mean when you say "fine" break angle?
Personally, I tend to prefer the idea to have an enough pronounced angle, so to have a good action and powerful response on the cone, but maybe it's beacause I never tune to open A or E, for singing reasons ( if I could say I sing, and I actually cannot...).
Anyway, on vintage guitars, with no adjustable truss rods, once the guitar is set up, that's is, and I find sometime vintage guitar re-setups are done with a final break angle not very "angled".
You could have a look to the b-series Triolian on www.vintagenationals.com... what is your opinion about?
thank you (and thank for your response to the wood Trios thread, pics will follow next week)

love to all

[robn]

I've taken "Vintage Nationals" off my "favorites" list coz I'd spend too much time drooling otherwise

I'm certainly not the person to ask about any vintage guitar I'm afraid. The most expensive guitar I own is probably worth only £200 second-hand on a good day

However, if I was given the choice between a new NRP Delphi and this one www.vintagenationals.com/DuoGoldReNk%20national%20guitar%20temp.htm an old body with a replacement neck, both about £1500 in the UK, I'd take the reconditioned guitar every time over the new one. Total sacrilege I know, and no longer a true vintage guitar, but I bet it is a bloody practical workhorse for busking and pub sessions - and it's recycling at its best!

Lower tunings would require a steeper break angle between the bridge and the tailpiece to get an optimum downward pressure than would higher tunings with the same set of strings. Lots of things could effect this angle (neck set, tail piece type/height, bridge height). If a guitar has a fairly "flat" string line over the bridge towards the tail piece, then it may perform better with heavier strings or in higher tunings. From the recordings I have heard - a lot of old blues players used higher tunings on thier resos - and a lot didn't !!!!!

Robin

[Michael Messer]

Hi guys,

Good discussion!

Robn, your posts are both very informative.

I agree about the Duolian, it looks like a great guitar and a good UK price. I have expessed my concerns about vintage guitar dealers opening up old Nationals, but in this case, the reconditioned Duolian work-horse is a job well done. I am sure it is a great guitar. I hope the dust bunny has been put back!

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

Hi all, and thanks mike for the nice words. I love adding the new necks to old sq necks.
Noone's playing em and I just keep the old neck w the guitar. Also they become eminently playable as you get a new neck, radiused fingerboard, and adjustable truss rod. Keep the old cone if possible and you have a lightweight Nat w vintage tone and very comfortable neck.

As for care, you can Windex off the guitar each time you play to keep your sweat off. I usually start off using Flitz or blue magic, a similar paste cleaner. This gets it perfectly clean and brings back the original shine or most of it. If it's something of mine, I'll then give it a wax job w Meguire's car wax to preserve it.
Makes the Windexing moot. I'll do that about once a year.

As for the dust bunnies, you mean like this?

www.vintagenationals.com/DustDuoInfo%20national%20guitar.htm

I guess I could grab the one mouse sized big one! I actually have a bag full of em, along w some playing cards, postcards, and various other items that somehow found their way inside various old Nat's!

Oh, and the B series is indergoing neck reset and in this case, new fingerboard as the original is shot.