National Trojan vs El Trovador

[SH]

Hi,

According to Bob B's book, wood body Nationals made by Harmony such as Trojan is inferior to El Trovador made by Kay in sound.

Has any one compared these two before ?
Any thoughts on this ?

Thank you !!

Satoru

[Michael Messer]

Hi Satoru,

Bob is correct in his assessment of wood-bodied Nationals. The ultimate wood Nationals are Triolians & Aragons, followed closely by El Trovadors. However, I know of some great sounding Trojans that would knock your socks off! Steve James, Eric Bibb & Bonnie Raitt, all get amazing tone from their Trojan guitars. I know of a beauty currently for sale on frets.co.uk.

Shine On,
Michael

[SH]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your notes.

Steve J kindly told me about his Trojan album to listen to, and it was very impressive sound !
Do you know which Bonnie's album I should listen to ?

And the one on fret.co.uk. is really a beauty and tempting,
but the price is too high for Trojan if I buy from Japan, that's the problem. Really nice......

And we should not forget about Muddy Waters' early pic holding Trojan !!

Satoru

[Mark Makin]

Bob Brozman is of the opinion that only the Aragon and El Trovador were made by Kay and the Estralita,Rosita and Trojan were Harmony built.
He quite rightly states a preference for Kay as the manufacturer of quality. Kay used quality mahogany tops and extra edge binding around resonators etc.. but I think the facts are not quite this simple.
Firstly, the Estralita (which Bob believes to be Harmony built)has the same mahogany top, the same three stripe binding around the resonator that the El Trovador does. I also enclose a picture of an El Trovador featuring unique Estralita fingerboard inlays(ONLY EVER on Estralitas!) This would be remarkable if was made by a different company.



The El Trovador was only built for National during 1933 and the Estralita appears (IMHO) as a 14 fret replacement in 1934 thru 1935.
Secondly there are Havanas with the same shaped f holes as Aragons (Kay built). There are also cheaper versions of Havanas with smaller cones (probably Harmony/Regal built?)
Also, as I have mentioned in other threads, there were TWO types of Trojan, one with the split f holes (which I believe were Harmony built) and one with longer f holes.

So, in effect, I agree with Bobs idea that "Kay is best" - but there are more variants out there than just El Trovadors and Aragons

[SH]

Mark,

Thank you for your notes.

That's really cool El Trovador !

Satoru

[Blues Pertti]

Hi,

There seem to be one Trovador in VintageNationals. I have been listening to Mike Dowlings's music, just to hear how his Trovador sounds. It sounds very nice.

Satoru...can you tell me what is Steve's album with Trojan?

Yours Pertti

[SH]

Hi Pertti,

Steve told me that he recorded some tracks with Trojan on his ''Art and Grit'' album, such track as ''Ooze It To Me, Mama''.

Satoru

[Blues Pertti]

Thanks Satoru

Pertti

[Michael Messer]

When I first met Steve in the mid 90s, the Trojan was his main touring guitar. I guess there are some live recordings and film of him with that instrument. When I met Steve at Dobrofest in 1998 he was playing a National Reso-Phonic Style N that was custom built for him. Possibly their first of that model?

If anyone knows Steve's email address they could ask him!

Shine On,
Michael.

[Blues Pertti]

Hi,

I just listened some samples of Mike Dowling playing El Trovador, and a sample of Steve James playing his Trojan. In my mind sound of El Trovador was fuller than that of Trojan. Samples were short and I have no idea how they feel in hands of amateur player- are they easy to play, are they loud...? These guitars have something similar in their appearance but I would vote for El Trovador in a case i would spend my money without possibility to try. Of course this is a matter of taste

Yours Pertti

[Blues Pertti]

HI,

So I believe that according to Marks' post Trojan in Frets is made by Harmony (split f-holes).

Yours
Pertti

[Deleted]

In my experience, El Trovadors were made by Kay 1st. At the end of Kay making them there were some made by Harmony. The Harmony made El Trovadors have a different scale from the kays. The Estralita was a 14 fret version of the El trovador. There have only been 2 or 3 I have ever seen so I don't think they sold for very long. There are other variations in Trojans besides the f holes. There are Mahogany bodied ones also. The El Trovador and Estralita guitars were high quality instruments. The other models made after were lessor quality.

[Jvesey]

Interesting thread. My first time here. Turns out, you have a picture of my Trovador with the Estralita inlays posted. For what it's worth, this Trovador has a H serial number. It does have the thick binding around the coverplate and edges. So, there seem to be all sorts of irregualrities with the Kay and Harmony built instruments.

[Ian McWee]

Hey Jon - Great to see you over here Bro! .....

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com