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Post by alisterhrae on Apr 29, 2007 19:23:44 GMT
Hey guys it's me again. You all helped with suggestions for fixing buzzing on my M-2. No mater what I have read regarding the 'new' National company, the quality of instrument they are producing is fantastic. My M-2 is a quality instrument-pretty loud and brilliant for finger picking. We play lots of acoustic old time and blues-it really cuts through busy bars!
But I still have my buzz! Changed strings wiggled the biscuit, restrung carefully from the G & D strings out.
Whenever I fret a G note on the 'B' string a distorted buzz resonates from the front of the cone. This carries on up the neck to the 12th fret. I get some distortion on the high notes of the 'E' string but not much. You don't notice it much playing live- but in the studio, it really shows.
How do you know when the cone is seated properly? Should I take the cover plate off and check for damage? If so what should I be looking for?
Any help much appreciated!
Kindest regards from Scotland-Alister
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Post by Dave King on Apr 29, 2007 19:34:47 GMT
Hello Alister
If your having problems with the buzzing get the guitar to me ~Ill sort it, if its new it wont cost you anything (other than a little in postage) as Im doing all the warranty for NRP,,,
.Dave King
dave@luthierscorner.co.uk
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Post by alisterhrae on Apr 30, 2007 13:02:23 GMT
Hey Dave, Thanks for the offer. My problem is that I play three gigs a week with the M2. I'm a bit uncertain sending it down unless it was with UPS. Where exactly are you? Next time I'm in London I could bring it with me. Do you have any other tips that I could try? Many thanks Alister
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 30, 2007 14:05:31 GMT
Hi Alister,
I could write pages of information about getting rid of buzzes, but without actually seeing your guitar, it is very difficult to advise you. I understand that it is inconvenient to send your guitar to Dave, but it may be the best solution. I could write you pages of info about getting rid of buzzes, but on a new guitar that is under guarantee, the best advice I can give would be to speak to Dave. Give him a call.
Good luck,
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by Dave King on Apr 30, 2007 16:56:57 GMT
Dave King,, 01189262446 dave@daveking-acoustics.com
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Post by alisterhrae on May 1, 2007 13:15:11 GMT
Thanks for the info, and taking the time to comment guys, much appreciated!
Kindest regards, Alister
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Post by Michael Messer on May 1, 2007 18:26:52 GMT
In addition to my last post about your buZZing guitar; all resophonic guitars buzz occasionally - you do have to learn how to fix them yourself. I could not count the days & nights I spent during the 1980s learning about such things. Many a time back then I drove to Mark Makin's in Nottingham in the middle of the night, to discuss and stop buzzes & rattles in resophonic guitars. Nottingham is a 300 mile round trip for me.
Alister, I think on a new guitar, you should talk to Dave King. But I also think it is essential that all resophonic guitar owners can deal with basic maintanance. I have arrived at gigs in foreign countries and had to dismantle the guitar and repair the cone....in the dressing room just before a big show. It happens.
Keep me posted how you get on, Shine On Michael
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Post by Bill Stig on May 1, 2007 19:15:45 GMT
Michael, I saw in another thread that you mentioned about fixing cones rather than replacing them - how is this done and how successful an operation is it? not that I need to - yet - but I would be interested to know.
cheers, Bill
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Post by Michael Messer on May 1, 2007 23:19:15 GMT
Hi Bill,
Your question is a good one, and one that I would like to take my time and answer properly. It will probably start a whole discussion which will be interesting. Perhaps it is a subject that should have its own thread & title?
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by alisterhrae on May 6, 2007 22:39:41 GMT
Hey Michael, I called Dave very helpful guy. I take your point about buzzing resophonics! I'm possibly being a tad paranoid, Dave did mention sympathetic buzzing, this is what my M2 seems to be suffering from. When I move the cone a bit, the buzzing changes a bit. It may well be a slightly dodgy cone? I guess only an expert will know. I get Jimmy Moon in Glasgow to look after my acoustics and mandolins, I've got a few of his mandolins. When I mentioned the buzzing National, he told me that they all bloody rattle! I think a thread about essential maintanance would be a great idea! Who's going to kick it? Very tempted by a National mandolin, any thoughts? Kindest regards, Alister
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Post by snakehips on May 7, 2007 8:35:46 GMT
Hi there !
Alister - where in Scotland are you ? I would be happy to have a look at your guitar - a bit of detective work on the buzzing thing. I think I could probably work out what is going on. Anything complicated though and I wouldn't attempt to fix. However, if it is just something malaligned or perhaps a poorly cut slot, I should be able to sort it.
I own (and have owned) some 10 or so Nationals and NRP's and helped others with their Nationals. I've repaired my bandmate's biscuit saddle when the end of the saddle broke off at the 1st string slot - the string would just fall off the side of the saddle. I glued a new piece of wood on. After it was set, I sanded it down to shape and using a black felt tip pen painted over the bare wood. You can't see the join now, and it is still strong 2 years after the repair. I can sort stuff sometimes - the rest of the time I send to Dave King.
As far as the cone is concerned, I am concerned that guitar shops will "expect" that the buzzing is caused by the cone being loose in the well (well, it is when the strings are off, but not the rest of the time !). NEVER let anyone fix the cone down inside the guitar - screws, nails, glue, silicone sealer - NEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope that is clear !!!!!!
I have had one mint vintage National cone from a mint 1934 National Duolian trashed by a guitar tech who assured me he knew what he was doing and had worked on Nationals before (yeh, probably about 1 or 2 !!). My mistake - never to make again.
Not so bad with a NRP reso - you can easily get another identical NRP cone. Original National cones can't be replaced. My National cone was too trashed to fix unfortunately. Dave tried, I tried (umpteen times) to kneed it back in shape - but under 6 strings worth of pressure it kept collapsing.
If you want me to have a look, email me at odonnell@uk2.net
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Post by alisterhrae on May 7, 2007 10:04:49 GMT
Hey Snakehips, thanks for the reply. I'm in Peebles, I'm up in Edinburgh a lot though, happy to bring it to you for a look?
Many thanks, keep on picking, Alister
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Post by Michael Messer on May 7, 2007 15:02:32 GMT
Hi Snakehips & Alister,
It sounds like you have a good plan to sort out this buzzing guitar of yours. I am sure it is nothing too serious.
Richard - old trashed National cones can be re-spun and returned to their former glory (if you can get someone to do them). I have a set in my square-neck Tricone that had collapsed and were very fragile. They have been in my Tricone for 18 months under some serious GBDGBD pressure with 12 to 54 gauge strings. They sound sweet and don't appear to be collapsing. I cannot tell you how important it is to keep old cones, even if you replace them, keep the old ones. I have restored cones with glue and a biro. I had one in a Style O that lasted years propped up with Araldite. The biro is not to use as a support....it is to roll around the rim and through the groves to push them straight. However, all that aside.....NRP cones are excellent and improving all the time.
Shine On, Michael.
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Post by 1928triolian on May 7, 2007 20:25:07 GMT
Hi Michael,
what a good news that old National cones can return to their former glory... too many Nationals are sold with new cones installed, meanwhile probably a number of these could be saved and stay with us; but almost nobody knows how to do it or who can do it!
I also was wondering about which cones does Mike Lewis uses in his guitars... your Fine Resophonic sounds really wonderful!
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Post by Michael Messer on May 7, 2007 21:49:29 GMT
Hi 1928triolian,
There is only one person that I know of who can re-spin old cones. It is a 'hit & miss' process, but worth a try. I hate to see old cones thrown away. I am not sure if he wants to go public just yet!
Mike Lewis and Pierre Avocat make the cones for Fine Resophonic Guitars themselves. They are as close as possible to original 1920s and 30s National cones. So they are slightly thinner and more fragile than modern NRP cones. They are not as loud as NRP cones, but I think they have the sweeter tone. Mike does not sell his cones, they are made for Fine Resophonic guitars.
Shine On, Michael
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