budget recommendations please

[smojo]

Hi, been playing slide about a year on a cheapo jumbo with action raised up but want to buy a budget metal bodied reso now. I've read reviews but still have no focus on what would be best. I have so far only tried a Fender style O which seemed well made but action too low for slide. Can anyone help me narrow down my choice please.

Are there any I should definitley avoid?

I like a warm tone with some reverb - am I right that tricones are sweeter than singles but more troublesome?

I mainly want to play slide so are some makes better suited by having higher action than others?

Apart from how they feel and sound are there any other points to look for when buying?

thanks

[robn]

Hi Smojo,

The problem with budget reso guitars is that their set up is so variable, and this is crucial to how they sound and how they play.

It is worth spending a little extra to get something that has been upgraded with a quality cone (National Resophonic cones have a good reputation for this purpose) and had the nut and bridge properly adjusted. You would not believe the difference it will make.

Have a look at Pete Woodman's web page (and the guest book section) Most of the questions you have asked are answered there. www.petewoodmanguitars.com/

Also he offers both an upgraded budget single cone and tri-cone.

Yours

Robn

[mirrormist]

Hi...

Michael has some reviews on the front page...just scroll down and you will see them...

I guess manufacturers try to strike a balance with the actions they set on the budget guitar...though they are not perfect for slide you can still play them ok and switch to a standard tuning when ever you wish without losing the ability to play.

I have a budget vintage tricone that i have restringed today with heavier gauge (MM) which seems to have lifted the action slightly and given a little more tension to the high strings in particular...ok so it will lose a little if i revert to standard tuning but i guess it is all about compromise. I bought it new but if i could take a step back would have gone for a used model saving some pennies.

i have learnt a lot reading through the threads on this site so i am sure you will get some benefit also.

good luck

Anthony

[blueshome]

Funnily enough I was discussing this subject with someone the other day.

Budget resos are very variable and, in the end, if you want it to be your main guitar you will soon be wanting to upgrade to something better which has the tone and playability to provide years of satisfaction. Why not wait a little longer and save up for something a little better.

There is nothing wrong with a flat top for slide, put some bigger strings on it and listen to it go! Remember, many of the great slide players never played a reso.

[Deleted]

Avoid the Fender spider bridge (wood body Dobro style)and Ozark wood-topped sunburst tricone with gold fittings..both of them total dogs (I don't know what the model numbers are on these guitars) Having said that, the other Ozarks are decent guitars, and so are Regal, Vintage and AXL.

And yes, many slide players use a regular guitar...do make sure that a reso is for you, a lot of people can't get on with the weight of metal body, and like the idea more than the reality. Having said that, only a reso will give you THAT tone - do make sure you understand the basic differences between spider, biscuit or tricone resos before taking the plunge.

In VERY simple terms - Dobro style (spider bridge, wood body). Available with regular or square neck. Sweet sound with a long sustain, favoured by country players. Biscuit bridge - loud with a cutting tone, the body material (wood, brass or steel) will contribute to the tone, from a warmer tone to a more strident one respectively. Tricone, slightly less loud, sweeter tone more sustain. Brass or steel body, with wood body a rarity.

Generally the reso market seems to have settled down so that most of the budget stuff is pretty credible, apart from one or two exceptions.

As regards action, a lot of players will have the action only a little higher than regular, particularly at the nut, so that they can fret chords and 'short chord' shapes in open tuning slide pieces. It's a personal thing, and in reality it's a compromise between ease of fretted playing and clean sliding. Set-up and construction accuracy can vary from guitar to guitar even for examples of exactly the same instruments.

[Blues Pertti]

Hi,

I have been happy with my Ozark 3616 deluxe. It is easy to play and it has rather good tone without upgrading it with new cone. I ordered it with Newtone Michael Messer strings.

I have also one Johnson 998. In my mind it is not so easy to play, but I have to say that one friend of mine just bought one of them and it was a lot of better than my Johnson- rather good guitar to start with --- and it was quite cheap in on German internet shop.

Yours Pertti P

[LouisianaGrey]

I agree with John about the wooden bodied Fender but actually the Ozark isn't that bad. It just sounds terrible because it's fitted with some of the worst cones I've ever seen. The metal bodied Fender is much the same as all the other metal bodied imports i.e. OK if you get a good one.

In general a wooden body spider bridge will give you more warmth and sustain. Unfortunately most of the imports are garbage - the Chinese seem to have got the hang of metal bodied resos much faster than wooden ones. Of the roundnecked ones I wouldn't buy anything except a Regal (and even then I'd swap the cone) or a Beard Goldtone.

I don't think tricones are more trouble than other resos - they are all prone to developing odd buzzes from time to time. Brass bodied tricones are less harsh in sound than the steel bodied ones.

As has been said, on all of them the setup of individual guitars varies, although they all tend to aim for a lowish action so you'll probably find that any of the imports you try will have a low action. In fact I'd go so far as to say if an import reso has a high action you should avoid it because it probably means they've got the neck angle wrong. I usually find that about 3mm at the 12th fret is a good compromise action for slide & fretting.

I disagree with Phil, though; I've seen a few imports that, after a bit of work, I'd be happy to keep without feeling any need to upgrade to something more expensive.

[fitchmeister]

Hi Smojo

You may find this link useful

www.acousticfingerstyle.com/ResonatorsExplained.htm

It contains MP3 soundfiles on different types of resonator which may guide you to the sound you want & narrow down yr search.

I bought a budget Tricone (vintage) with a view to upgrade and was advised to go for one that had a basic tone that i liked and felt good to play - which i did. There was quite a difference in three guitars of the same model that i tried. I got a deal on the new cones at the same time. And post upgrade it does sound a lot better.

Be wary of buying with a view to upgrade by 'just slotting in new cones' - The bridge on my Tricone was so awful that to upgrade i would have needed to modify the cones(locating pins were way off) - i got a new bridge too.

I am lucky that i get to play some really nice old vintage nationals so i am aware of the difference - for a start my Tricone is really heavy, the neck stick isn't straight, isn't as loud etc.. but all in all im very happy with the guitar i got, for the price i paid.

Depends where your priorities are - if i hadn't gone to Bluesweek for the last 2 years i could of got a National.


I do think Pete's advice (Louisiana Grey) in this arena is invaluable and his website has some good deals on upgraded resos - you get a sorted one for a set price.

Cheers

Roj

[smojo]

Thanks for your replies everyone - some really good food for thought here. I am purely amateur play at home so some considerations like weight etc don't really apply. It's going to get fairly light use so I guess the odd rattle isn't a problem either.

What does a decent replacement cone cost roughly and are they all pretty much standard sizes? Presumably upgrading a tricone is more expensive and difficult to get right?

I have fitted heavier strings to my cheapo flat-top but are there any "special" type of strings that give better tone/results?

[robn]

Believe me smojo, having "the odd rattle" will quickly drive you mad - even if you expect that your reso will only get light use at home (they are very addictive).

Like Roj says, upgrading is more than just slotting in a new cone (a National Resophonic single cone will cost about £50 from the London Resonator Centre). Cones tend to be a standard width for the type (eg 9.5 inches for a biscuit bridge single cone) but the hieghts vary so you will have to adjust or build a new bridge.

The set up is critical to the enjoyment you will get from your guitar. I cannot emphasise how important it is to make your purchase from a seller who knows about reso guitars.

Your question about strings is a matter of trial and error - large bodied flat tops can produce too many overtones for clarity when playing slide, which good strings may emphasise further. Try Michael's National strings 15-56 (just be aware that they may take a few hours of playing to settle to a great tone).

Robn

[LouisianaGrey]

Tricone upgrading isn't any more complicated than doing it on a single cone although, as you would expect, 3 cones are more expensive than one.

You should probably expect to replace the wooden bridge piece as well, although bizarrely on the one I've just done the neck was completely out of alignment (heel, fingerboard and headstock in 3 different planes as though it had twisted when it was being machined) and the guitar hadn't been put together very well but the bridge was quite good.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Smojo,

This thread seems to have escaped my attention. You are in good hands with Pete Woodman advising you about budget reso upgrades. Pete knows much more about this than I do. Also the guys advising you have all done upgrades and worked on their own budget-priced guitars. So my advise on this one is to listen & learn from all these guys. On the subject of strings - without trying to sound like a 'World Of Leather' commercial - the Michael messer Newtone National strings have pretty much become the industry standard for National and National-type guitars. As Robn says; a set of 15 to 56 phosphor bronze should make your guitar sound pretty good.

Keep in touch and let us know how you get on.

Shine On,
Michael.

[Alan]

Here's a link to Newtone.

www.newtonestrings.com/acoustic_page.htm

Not sen the Heritage Series strings before, I imagine it'll make it more comfortable for a few people to play.

[wolvoboy]

I own a Ozark wood bodied Tricone and to be honest its not that bad i changed the cones in it and put some mm Newtone strings on it and i can honestly say its a 100 % better than it was before,mind you the cones that come with the guitar have got the tone of dustbin lids difficult to describe the sound now ,but more like a Dobro than a tricone
keep pickin and slidin
wolvoboy

[Deleted]

Interesting point about getting better results with changing the cones on the Ozark tricone. The point I made about the weight of the guitar isn't related to playing standing up, just playing sitting down means it's quite different experience having several kilos of heavy metal to cope with instead of a featherweight acoustic guitar - the balance is quite different and some folk just find it too different. It's alway useful to try a National simply as a benchmark, so you can make some comparison, even though you have no intention of buying one, especially if you haven't much experience of resos.