indian style slide guitar on reso - dean?

[vivek]

hey all
i have been playing my acoustic guitar lap style of late in the style of indian classical musicians such as debashish bhattacharya and vm bhatt, albeit with no hard classical training or much slide proficiency at that. for the style i am playing i read that a tricone was a more subtle sweet sound with bigger sustain. i played a single cone today, tho, and was struck by how much it sounded like a sarod (if any of you are familiar that). i suppose from what i heard about single cones sounding banjo-like i should have figured that out sooner. so i am set on a single cone for lap playing now, using an extension nut.
does anyone have any experience with the dean heirlooms, and particularly the difference in tones between brass and copper models?
also if anyone has any experience or advice whatsoever regarding slide guitar in indian classical style please share.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Vivek,

I have been collecting and playing Indian Slide Guitar music for 25 years. I am not by any means a proficient Indian classical slide player, but I love the music and have always enjoyed dabbling & experimenting with the style. It was via mine and Mike Cooper's collection and enthusiasm for this music back in the 1980s that a very well known slide guitarist and others in the media started turning on to these guys. It is interesting how these things come about. It was nothing new....Indian classical music entered our record collections back in the 1960s via the Beatles and one or two others.

Indian slide guitar is a wonderful sound, but to really get to the heart of Indian Classical music, one should listen to Sarod & Sitar music. This is what the slide players are emulating.

The two musicians you mention, Debashish Bhattacharia & V. Mohan Bhatt, are wonderful players, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. There are other players well worth checking out. My all-time favourite Indian slide player is the guy who kind of started it all and taught Debashish and influenced many players. His name is Brij Bhushan Kabra and he has been making records for 40 years or so. The best ones to get are the actual Indian releases, rather than compilations and later recordings made for western 'world music afficionados' ears! Contact ABC Records in Southall, London, and ask them about Indian slide guitar records. Two absolute classics by Brij B Kabra are 'Call Of The Valley' and 'Folk Melodies Of Rajastan'. If you like hypnotic spacey slide guitar music in open D tuning.....these albums will knock your socks off! Another wonderful Brij B Kabra album is 'Lovers' Call' with Rais Khan on sitar & Brij B Kabra on slide guitar. To me the music on this album is as close to phsycadelic as anything I have heard.

On the lighter side of things; check out 'Hit Beats On Electric Steel Guitar' by Ashish Bhadra. Other interesting players are Gautam Dasgupta, he plays electric lap steel guitar and does Indian film themes with a big band. Sunil Ganguly is another in this style.

Vivek, there are a lot of cassettes & CDs put out by little companies and sold on the streets in Asian areas, which well worth checking out. I discovered a lot of Indian slide guitar records in Indian restaurants - one or two I bought from the restaurants! Sometimes it is the only way.

Single cone Nationals are great for this style, especially if you raise the nut and use flat wound strings. The Dobro sounds pretty cool too, but my favourite instrument for playing Indian style is my 12 String National Havana guitar. Electric lap steels are also great for a raga or two!

I hope I have been helpful and maybe we can get a good thread going on this subject. It is not something I chase anymore. I went totally nuts on it back in the 80s and early 90s, but since then as it became trendy & fashionable, my interest in the subject drifted a little. However...saying that, I am currently involved in writing material for a steel guitar album with pedal steel guitarist, BJ Cole, and we are writing an Indian piece for 12 string bottleneck guitar and pedal steel. The pedal steel is amazing for this stuff!

Where are you based...UK or elsewhere?

Keep in touch,

Shine On,
Michael.

[vivek]

michael
thanks so much for your reply. as it happens i have been brought up with classical indian music around me my whole life, i'm quite heavily into it for the past year, so i'm quite aware of all instruments and major artists, i'm grateful for the information you have given me, and am glad to see people are into it on more than a 60s psychedelia superficial level. kabra and bhattacharya are my favourite guitarists, i'm seeing amjad ali khan the sarod player in concert in november, imrat khan and sons on monday. will be awesome. i will have a go on some different guitars to test this, played a weissenborn and dobro in lrc today, an archtop in guildford sunday, but it was the sarod like tone of the single cone today that i thought offered a different and unique sound. i figure that i'll play on my own for some time to develop more technical proficiency, then seek a guru to learn the theory behind it from. since you ask i'm a student based in camden, and me and some friends run a percussion/instrumental/ethnic music society at ucl.
thanks for the advice, would love to see some more chat on this subject too.
vivek

[Michael Messer]

Hi Vivek,

As you say, most people get into Indian Classical music via psychedelia and the Beatles, so it is good to talk to someone who really knows about this area of music. I love the Sarod, I have a few beautiful sarod records & CDs. I guess the single cone National guitar is similar to a sarod in its banjo-like quality.

LRC is the best place to go. Next time you are in there, mention to Ron that you & I have been in touch.

I would advise you to start playing in open DADF#AD. This is the basic tuning and could be considered the ultimate tuning. DADFAD is also wonderful. Sometimes I like to drop the top string so the tuning is DADF#AC#. I do play some Indian style slide pieces using GBDGBD, but that tuning is more suited to western styles of music.

Good luck with your study of this amazing instrument,

Shine On....and keep in touch,
Michael.

[vivek]

i've used a bit of dadf#ad, but the one i have used most is dadadf#, that's not putting too much strain on the guitar is it? i actually switch between dadadf#, dadadf, and dadade for a more neutral raga incorporating major and minor keys

[Michael Messer]

Hi Vivek,

I have just amended my last post as I missed the '#' off the C note.Typing error!

DADADF# - as long as the top three strings are light it will be fine. If you are using a square neck National or Dobro type guitar it won't move anything, but I would be careful with Weissenborn type guitars. Tune it the same but a step lower.

Shine On
Michael.

[vivek]

wow it is amazing that it is possible for a complete newcomer like myself to be able, within a week of getting into slide guitar, to get to speak with a musician of your stature michael. praise the internet! i am ashamed to admit that i'm unfamiliar with any of your music (i'm a bit of an information junkie when i get into something - thanks google), which i guess makes sense if i am just getting into the genre. but rest assured that i will most definitely be getting into your stuff now. any other artists you can recommend incidentally, particularly given my bent on unorthodox slide styles?

[Michael Messer]

Hi Vivek,

I agree ....PRAISE THE INTERNET!!!!! You are right, before the Internet it would have ben impossible for us to communicate, apart saying hello after a concert. This is why I enjoy hosting this forum - people with similar tastes and interests can communicate. So it is as much fun for me as it is for you.

Keep in touch

Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

I've played the Dean Heirloom guitars..they are OK, but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy one over and above an Ozark or Regal. The are VERY heavy (no real problem if you are playing them lapstyle). As far as I can tell, the copper and brass appearance is just an applied antique style finish, there's no difference in the actual construction materials.

[Michael Messer]

Vivek, do you know that Debashish Bhattacharia is an agent for a guitar maker and sells Indian slide guitars. Ron at LRC has spoken to Debashish and knows prices etc...

Just a thought!

Shine On,
Michael.

[vivek]

hey guys
thanks for the info re: the dean, mel at lrc said ozark is best in that price range
i did know debashish is selling his guitars. didn't know that lrc would know about it. i will definitely ask tho, thanks michael. have the feeling that might be a little out of my league price wise, for the time being at least. that said, this resonator i'm talking about doesn't look like it will come into my possession for the better part of a year anyways. part of me thinks that i should now only buy instruments of a certain standard since i got a martin last year, even if it means waiting longer, as budget guitars often don't remain budget, as their shortcomings can become more apparent with age, and i dont wanna keep collecting deficient guitars.

[Tom Doughty]

Hi there all
Just to confirm that Indian Slide Music is alive and developing on many levels in the UK. I spent 2 weeks in Kolkata this Janurary, (o6) at Debashish's house in Regent Colony there.
A truly wonderful and humbling experience to study hands on, One to One with such a master player. The techniques will truly take years to master, but I am amazed at homw many Indian Raga influences are now creeping into my lap slide playing. There is a diary of the event in the 'News' section of my web site that you might find worth a look: best to you, Tom Doughty: Go to: www.tomdoughty.com/news2.html

[vivek]

wow thats amazing. read yr diary is enlightening. maybe after years of practice to get my basic technique up, i'll also head over to get some teaching from debashish. something to aim for anyway