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Amps
Oct 20, 2006 14:27:31 GMT
Post by robn on Oct 20, 2006 14:27:31 GMT
Hi Growler,
After pre-amping, the SM57 (used to mic-up your reso or acoustic guitar) could be plugged into the guitar input jack socket on your Carlsboro and then the SM58 (used for voice and not pre-amped) could go into the Lowz balanced input using an XLR. This would give you a simple sound reinforcement system for solo performance in very small venues. I use my Marshall AS50, which is very similar to your Carlsbro, set up like this (SM57 > pre-amp > instrument input and SM58 > XLR balanced input)
You can put the SM57 into the guitar input on your Marshall AVT50 but it will definitely need a pre-amp to match the high impedance of this type of input. Only use the clean channel or the system will feedback terribly.
I've not had a play with the Yamaha Stagepas 300 but, looking at the spec, if you just want to sound reinforce an acoustic set it should do the job well enough. Although it says "8 Channel" realistically you have 6 x mic or instrument connection options to play with. So it should cope with 3 x acoustic guitars (through mics or with acoustic pickups) plus 2 of you singing. You'll probably need a bigger mixing desk and more power (600 watts) if you have bass and drums in your combo - if not then the Yamaha seems an appealing option.
Robn
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Amps
Oct 20, 2006 19:59:00 GMT
Post by andys on Oct 20, 2006 19:59:00 GMT
Heres a different angle on this (and I'm no stranger to controversy). In the days of "primitive" amplification (which now fetches silly "vintage" prices) what did the performers of the time use? Microphones thru valve amps? Acoustics thru cheapo magnetic pickups? The Beatles used Gibson Jumbos with magnetic pickups for their live sound, what did it sound like? We now regard them as classics. What would Son House, Bukka White, etc have used? I know we now "have the technology" but it sounds like for acoustic amplification, a Shure mike and a clean PA will work for someone, while a valve combo and a pickup for others. It seems funny that these days we strive for an authentic sound on a vintage design of instrument, using bang up to date technology. Me, I like the sound of my resonator thru a borrowed Line 6 combo as well as it being twanged in my bathroom, while the kids are in the bath. I think its a case of making your own sound out of the kit you use.
Thinking back, some of the best gigs I have seen have had a less than perfect sound, the performers carried it off with their energy/professionalism/humour/virtuosity. I suppose that I'm still a player of the level of ability, where a perfect sound will just perfectly amplify my failings as any kind of virtuoso. Give me a bit of rasp, and edge, and it covers my mistakes. And the best live albums are covered in feedback, the worst ones are covered in overdubs!!!
Just my take on the issue(though I dont expect to resolve it. And remember I am a bit of an ageing punk, too)
Andy S
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Amps
Oct 21, 2006 10:38:15 GMT
Post by Michael Messer on Oct 21, 2006 10:38:15 GMT
I love the sound of acoustic guitars amplified with magnetic pickups. For my money it blows any kind of under-the-saddle system out of the water. I have recorded lots of album tracks using an acoustic with a humbucker strapped across the soundhole. I have also used magnetic pickups on resophonic guitars, which is okay, but still doesn't touch a microphone.
In the days when guys like Son House & Bukka White still roamed the earth, they would have amplified their Nationals with a microphone. I can remember seeing many acoustic performers in the 1960s and 70s amplifying their acoustic guitars with either a magnetic pickup or a microphone.
One of the problems these days is that people expect an acoustic instrument to be as powerful on stage as an electric one - I remember seeing Rory Gallagher at college gigs and when the acoustic or National guitar was used, everyone in the audience would shut up or they couldn't hear the show. Even later than that in the late 70s I can remember audiences having to be a bit quieter to hear an acoustic instrument.
I am on your side there Andy, I prefer grit & feel to clear & clean any day. Don't get me started about modern recording & stage sounds!!!!!
2 years ago we (MM & 2nd Mind Band) played at a festival in Italy, and because of an extreme rainstorm the mainstage got soaked and so did most of the PA & backline. To cut a long story short - we ended up plugging the whole band....vocal mic, 2 x electric guitars, bass guitar and turntables, into a Fender Bassman amp! It was a little strange because everybody's volume and tone controls affected each other....so if I turned my guitar up....the bass would go up too! ....anyway....the point of the story is that although it sounded as ruff as ****, it was a great sound. A friend of mine in the audience said it was the best he had heard us play!
An interesting thread Shine On Michael.
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Amps
Oct 21, 2006 11:04:49 GMT
Post by growler on Oct 21, 2006 11:04:49 GMT
HI Andy ..... just to keep this very interesting thread going..... as far as elecro/acoustic amplification goes I find this not a problem, in fact I think they have done an excellent job especially with the type of saddle pickup they have fitted in my Lowden , it amplifies the sound of the guitar beautifully. The amplification system I really admire is Takemines , very practical especially battery removal, not like my lowden remove nearly all the strings to try and remove a battery stuck to the back of the neck of the guitar .I think the days are over for having to drill into the sound board of a beautifully made acoustic to amplifie it ; as the beatles did. As for electric guitars the type of sound I love, and try and copy is similar to much admired Ry Cooder . I also think the sound Michael gets, especially on" King Guitar" is a sound to die for, I posted a question to his forum when I first joined to ask him naively, what pedal he was using,to my suprise he said "nothing to do with pedals , its a vintage valve amp I use".
Early on in the year at a musical soiree in our village, this guy plugged my electric into a Marshall AVT 50 "Valvestate" instead of the PA they were using, and instantly I thought " wow" this is the vintage sound I am after . As for amplifing "Metal" resonators this really is a problem for me, when I ordered my reso I asked for a Piezo type pickup to be fitted inside it, thinking the elecro/acoustic sounds okay. When the guitar arrived it was some time later that it was amplified and played solo through the groups PA and I thought " Christ " that sounds like *+it " but when it was played with the rest of the group it sounded okay. However if you need to move around the stage I can understand the reasons for having one fitted ...... keep this interesting thread going....... as I'm learning so much ...... regards Growler
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Amps
Oct 21, 2006 11:40:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2006 11:40:08 GMT
I always amplify my acoustics with a soundhole pickup ( a cheapy Artec or a Lawrence) put thru' an amp (either Sessionette or Fender 75 valve combo). This gives me a nice 'fat' sound and total control of the sound. In small venues, the amp is loud enough, or you can mike it thru' the PA for bigger events, and it acts as an on-stage monitor. I don't like the sound of most piezo pickups, especially when you are at the mercy of a sound man who isn't 100% on the ball about getting a good sound out of an acoustic guitar.
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Amps
Oct 21, 2006 12:36:14 GMT
Post by robn on Oct 21, 2006 12:36:14 GMT
What's good about "now" rather than "back then" is that we are lucky enough to have choice. Good kit is relatively cheaper today than in the past - previous generations would have been very envious! I think that it is great that I can find many good low watage valve amps on the market now (like Michaels signature amp) and get that to die for tone at a low volume for small venues but also use the same amp mic'd up through a modern clean and clear PA to balance it against drums and bass in a bigger hall. I remember when playing in a band as a kid that getting the balance anywhere near right was desparate. I was lucky enough to have a friend who was a BBC sound engineer who taught me loads but there was no way we could have afforded a mixing desk and PA back then - they were soley the preserve of the professionals. Now you can buy a small PA system, DI boxes and mics quite cheaply and use them to balance up all of those great sounding little amps and pick-ups that we all love to use. I love the sound of the old kit - but I also love the way the new kit lets me really use that sound. Robn
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Amps
Oct 21, 2006 14:03:47 GMT
Post by Michael Messer on Oct 21, 2006 14:03:47 GMT
Robn, your points are valid and I agree with what you say. The availability of professional kit for both live performance and recording at affordable prices is amazing. The problem starts when people start trying to adjust & improve the sound, rather than balance the instruments at a higher volume level. There is no doubt that if you know what you are doing you can achieve a better stage sound now than you could have done 30 years ago. But....very few people do 'really' know what they are doing and because of equipment being so complex & hi tech, they screw up the sound, rather than enhance it. At the end of a run of tour dates, I can count on one hand the concerts that had a really good out front PA sound, and these days I play at some of the premier venues & festivals. I think the best sound we get as a band is when we play in very small venues and only the vocals are going through the PA, which is exactly how we used to do it 35 years ago when I first started! It's a funny old world sometimes Shine On, Michael.
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