National Hybrids

[alias]

I'm curios about the 1930 Style O guitars with brass bodies / steel coverplates and the reverse.
Recently landed what I believed would be an all steel version and before plastering on the magnet, was surprised by the sound.
Seemed to me it had decent steel growl my brass O's lacked and a slightly sweeter tone than my Trios / Duos.
Reached for the magnet and sure enough, it stuck on the plate and fell off the body.
I've owned a Duolian with a steel body / brass coverplate but this O is my first experience with the opposite.
Anyone care to share their experiences with this combo?

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Do you mean it has a brass body and steel coverplate ? If so, it should really just sound like a regular brass Style "O" as nothing will convince me much that the coverplate material influences the sound much. When you tested the body with a magnet, did you test front AND back ? The front+sides are made from one piece of sheet metal on 12 fret National guitars (excluding early 3 piece bodies). 14 fret Nationals are the other way around - back and sides from one piece. Thus, you can have different metals for the front and back.
This is a common enough finding on vintage Nationals.

I have 2 Style "O" 's - one is all brass except for a German Silver coverplate (I'm sure the tailpiece is GS too).
The other Style "O" is steel front+sides and coverplate (but non-magnetic handrest), and non-magnetic back - not sure yet - either brass (most likely), german silver or even copper is possible. Will need to do an internal "scratch-test".
Both Style "O" 's should be circa 1930, going by serial no.s

I have an all steel circa 1930 Polychrome Triolian (serial no. puts it down as 1930), but the steel coverplate and tailpiece are copper-plated - go figure ? !!! The paint sloughed off that much easier !
I have another Triolian (refinished, new neck) that is all steel, everywhere. Both have the slot on the top (under the fretboard) for Bakelite necks. No serial no. for this one as neck (and tailpiece) long gone before I got it but likely a 1929-30 Triolian.

Two 14 fret Duolians (1934+35) - both all steel except the 1934 one has a brass coverplate but steel handrest.
A 1931 Duolian is all steel.

All guitars have a non-magnetic (I assume brass) tailpiece except for my 1930 Polychrome Triolian, which is steel. Can't vouch for the original taipieces on the circa 1930 steel Style "O" and renecked Triolian - as they were long gone.

Coverplates and tailpieces don't (IMHO) affect the tone enough to detect. I believe though that changing back or front metals can make a tonal difference

So to me, Alias, your two Style "O" 's should sound quite different - ie. one like a brass Style "O" and one like a steel Triolian (Triolians are closer to steel Style "O" 's than Duolians as they had maple necks too).

My brass Style "O" with GS coverplate should sound exactly like your brass Style "O" with steel coverplate. My steel front, unknown back should sound a little bit different to your all steel body brass coverplate Style "O".

At least in theory !! I find all my Nationals sound and play completely different anyway !!!

As long as you like them both, then NO worries - enjoy the differences !
Great, isn't it ? !!

[Michael Messer]

Every component affects the sound of an instrument. How much each component does and what it does, can be hard to determine.

During the last few months I have seen various combinations of metals used to make MM guitars. My own personal MM Lightning for example, has a steel coverplate. It has a different sound to all the other MM Lightnings that come through. I have tried it with a brass coverplate and sure enough it sounds like the others.

I have seen many combinations of metals used on vintage Nationals, but I have never had the desire to swap them around and run tests. A guitar is what it is and I either like it or I don't. The ones I like I enjoy for their unique qualities.

Shine On
Michael.

[alias]

Thanks for the replies and apologies for mine being tardy.
I wanted to be sure exactly what the O in question was made of and as it's currently in Marc Schoenberger's shop for a neck re-set, I took the opportunity to obtain the definitive opinion.
Marc tells me the top and back are nickel silver, the cover plate is steel with a nickel silver strap, and the tailpiece is brass.
To my one good ear it seems the tone falls somewhere between my brass O and my all steel Triolian.
Can't say I've ever heard one that sounds really similar, although I freely admit that may be a fault of what's left of my memory.
I totally agree that the variety is indeed enjoyable.
Thanks again for the input.