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Post by jackstrat on Feb 22, 2009 11:45:57 GMT
Morning all!
Just wondering what you think about the following...
I was doing a little bit of studio work for a mate's band yesterday...couple of small slide parts to add some colour to a track (wish I could do them again...I know I can do better...but anyway!!).
In this particular studio set-up, I was dispatched to a separate, windowless, acoustically-deadened, gear-cluttered room - where the only means of communication with the control room was by talk-back through the headphones. This was fine for the engineer, cos he had a mic in front of his face - I had to lean over and holler into the mic that was being used for my amp, and often the only way that I could get his attention was by making some awful noise with my guitar/shouting and hope that he was listening through the monitors...he was two doors away so the chances of him hearing me otherwise was pretty slim.
I have a bit of studio experience, not loads or anything, but I did find it strange to be locked away in the same room as my amplifier...this was a bit weird too, coz my headphone mix was always competing with the external bleed from my amp.
The difficulty with/lack of communication definitely rattled me, and it often meant that my mate, who's stuff we were working on actually had to come into the room with me to explain stuff coz the talk-back just wasn't cutting it.
Oh yeah, the other thing that definitely got to me was that when I was in contact with the engineer via talk-back...bearing in mind that I was in virtual isolation in a separate room...was that I could hear the rest of the gang talking and messing about etc. in the background. They're cool guys, no worries there, and they were well happy with the stuff I was doing...it's just that when you're only getting bits and pieces of conversations, you start to make up your own ideas as to what they're talking/laughing about...know what I mean?!
Sorry for the slight rant...and by no means attempting to make excuses for any weaknesses in my playing, I just know that the set-up really didn't help matters. Experience I guess?!
Niall
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Post by jackstrat on Feb 22, 2009 11:52:28 GMT
Sorry, when I said two doors away, I meant two rooms (not two houses!!)... and just to re-iterate there was no visual contact whatsoever...
Niall
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Post by blueshome on Feb 22, 2009 12:30:26 GMT
A usual set up for over-dubs is to put the amp where it sounds best and the guitarist in the control room to play along with the monitors or through headphones. Sounds like they used a strange set up to me, I can't see the benefit of it either performance or sound-wise.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 22, 2009 14:44:28 GMT
Hi Niall, I totally understand your predicament. I would have sat in the control room with the engineer and not listened through headphones, but through the monitors. My amp would have been in the room where you were and the door would be shut to avoid any spill. Lastly but not least, I am sure they are cool guys and did not mean any harm, but I would have told them to shut the f*** up!!!! There is nothing worse than trying....or not trying....to hear the conversation that is happening in the control room and coming to you via the talkback mic.. I learned this lesson the hard way. You cannot work in a studio with people talking and having fun while you are trying to work. It is not weaknesses in your playing or your concentration, it is just impossible to work in the wrong environment. What you say about experience is true. One thing experience taught me, was not to be scared to tell the studio how I like to work and to be able to create that environment where ever I go. It is not offensive or over the top, just explain politely that the engineers friends are not welcome. When the session is over the engineer and the other folks in the studio will forget about it immediately and probably never think about that moment again. Whereas you will have to live with that recording forever, so do everything possible to get it right, even if only for yourself. I am only telling you this because in my early days of recording I had work suffer because of the problems you have experienced. Just trying to help  Shine On Michael |
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Post by jackstrat on Feb 22, 2009 19:13:16 GMT
Yes MM...you've hit the nail on the head when you refer to having to live with a dodgy recording forever...I'm certainly not the most amazing player in the world (and certainly still only feeling my way in terms of slide work) but I do like to think that I've given my best on recordings, and this is certainly not what I feel about yesterday's session. The thing that's really bugging me is that I managed to come up with a kinda cool riff that everybody liked and it worked well in the piece, but I can't help thinking that I really could have nailed it if I had just been more comfortable. I really appreciate criticism/guidance in the studio context coz I trust other people's ears - most especially when I'm guesting on their track...but the way this was set up I really felt like everyone else was just sitting around in the control room waiting for me to get it right all on my lonesome...felt very detached from the whole thing to be honest. I know I should have spoken up, but the owner of the studio was doing the work as a favour to my mate's band and I really didn't want to rock the boat in terms of how he was running the session...my mistake I guess.   Think I need to have a quiet word with my mate... Again sorry for venting my frustrations here, but it helps, so thanks guys!! Niall |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 19:26:29 GMT
Niall
I think any performance is a performance, on stage or in a studio. The latter for me is harder. It was no rant, you were messed about with and have every right to get more respect from everyone else in the studio.
And yes, a recording that you do not own with work that you are not 100% happy with is a long term bad memory.
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Post by jackstrat on Feb 22, 2009 19:50:31 GMT
Ya, I don't blame the lads to be honest, and I can't say if they were aware of the situation from my perspective...probably not and again my fault for not speaking up, but one thing is for sure, I won't let myself get caught in that situation again...unless there's a visual contact with the control, or at very least a decent two-way talkback system between rooms, I'll be staying in the control room. Lesson learned.
Anyway back to reality...off to play me guitar now!!
Regards,
Niall
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Feb 22, 2009 22:37:46 GMT
Niall
I play and have played my share of sessions i agree with MMs spoint of view , i had some expierences like that some years back and the bottom line was by not telling whoever to *&^% off it can spook you if you feel you cannot do what you are able to do
al
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Post by jackstrat on Feb 23, 2009 19:30:25 GMT
Spoke to my buddy today and I'm glad to report that he's adamant that none of the stuff that was recorded is to be put in the public domain unless everybody is happy with their contribution. He also understood my grievances with the process in which the recording was done.
I'll happily do the parts again, under the right conditions, and if they still don't meet a certain standard, then that's me rumbled isn't it!!!
All's well...thanks lads,
Niall
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Post by Gerry C on Feb 23, 2009 19:33:45 GMT
No argument here! If you were doing this as a favour to a mate, I think you should be upfront and tell him that you did your best in the circumstances but the circumstances prevented you doing your best! I remember a while back trying to overdub a harmony vocal and getting a load of racket coming over the cans from the desk area. Eventually someone said, "That's Take 4,607, what's wrong?!" I promptly threw my first-class, grade A, industrial-strength Hissy Fit (it must be seen to be believed!) and the guy said, "Oh. Er, sorry!" The noise stopped, I calmed down, did the dub in one take and never had that problem again. Mind you, I never worked with that band again either! I think if you get it right from the start, as Michael advises, that's the best way to get the best results. Or you could try the Hissy Fit approach... Cheerily, Gerry C |
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 23, 2009 19:48:57 GMT
Hi Niall,
I hope your next venture into the studio is a success. There's no magic formula to recording, just relax, enjoy and do your best. It's like anything, the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Shine On
Michael.
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