pugsley
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 26
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Post by pugsley on Feb 20, 2009 17:50:06 GMT
Hi guys, I've been meaning to learn the guitar for a while now, and it's got to the point where I've just got to jump in and do it. Problem is that the style I'm wanting to play is quite specific, and finding relevant material on the internet has been hard to come by. The style goes really well with a resonator guitar, so I thought this place looked like somewhere good to get advice.
I don't really know the term for the style but it's blues, kinda modern delta, swampy, gritty, slide. That doesn't explain it very well does it? Best thing i can do is probably give some examples:
So I guess i'm after advice on two things - which kind of guitar to choose and where to find material on learning the style???
As for which guitar, i suppose the tone is important. It's the deeper, grittier tone I'm after. The opposite of the hawaiian sound. Maybe it's the tuning, I don't know, I'm new to this guitar business. My price range is around £300-400. Any ideas??
Also, if anyone knows of any good material to learn from then I'd love to hear about it. Living out in the sticks in mid Wales, I'll probably have to teach myself. I've been told that the pentatonic scale might be a good place to start?? But I was also lucky to have a few beers with a fantastic guitarist called Preston Reed, and he told me not to worry about too much theory.
Any advise to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers Pugsley
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Feb 20, 2009 18:04:46 GMT
Hi
well i earn my living teaching guitar so here is a begining for you the music that you mention that floats your boat so to speak ....
a..dont worry to much about theory
then in you situation id say i want to learn how to play.....this exactly ,then ask about for someone who can figure out however that song is played and start there
as to what guitar with the budget you talk of perhaps a busker cannon would be good......checkout busker guitars ,a few of us here are well into busker guitars
and keep at it dont give up.....
good luck
al
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Post by melp on Feb 20, 2009 20:10:56 GMT
Hi,
Would be good to know if you have played at all up to now? So, do you have a base to build on with other types of playing or is this from a standing start? Does not matter which, but good to know, when offering opinions.
Just a point about the fact that my recommendations are products by Michael and Robin, of this forum. So it may seem to be from 'within the club' so to speak. Two things, one, its not, and two I don't care. I recommend them simply because they are the best for the money that I could find, and nothing else.
I started playing slide about seven months ago, but had been playing guitar for ever. I found a lot of the materials that you find for slide instruction quite frustrating, they were incomplete, against my requirements below.
So, let me give you the one that made the difference for me. Michael Messer's Introduction to Blues Side Guitar (its on Michael's web site).
Why? A lot of the things I looked at were not well organised or photographed, so it was hard to see what was going on. What I wanted to know was the following: What to do? How to do it? What do I do next? Along with photography that I could see what was going on so I could copy it.
Michael's DVD does this beautifully. You get everything from how to tune (mainly open G to start with), a lot of the core slide blues licks and rhythms, more than that a framework on how to build your own.
Its just as good as it gets for the sort of music in your examples!
If you have not played much, or at all, I would agree with something like the Buster Cannon. I have one. Its a great little guitar. It has a very small body and is very comfortable to play.
I think it could be quite a good one to start with, but to be honest its so long since I started I cannot remember.
Having said that I would have to say that guitars good for slide may not be the best option for a very first guitar. The action is going to be a bit higher than a 'normal' guitar and the strings would be normally be heavier. But that's why its good for slide, no point trying to learn slide from a standing start on a guitar that its very hard to play on and it does not sound right.
Unless of course you decide to go for lap style? Which you could do on a Cannon or a Blues anyway.
The thing is that if its your first guitar and you play fingers and slide, it will be hell on your left hand fingers to start with! But if you are determined to get this done, and adopt what they used to teach us in the military 'its only pain it won't hurt you' and stay in open tunings you can get there.
Finally, am I the best person to offer opinions? From an experience viewpoint, probably not, there are many on this forum with much more than me. But I did start seven months ago so my start is still fresh in my mind.
Hope you get lot's of other comments to help you along the way.
Good Luck!
Mel
P.S. I think that the best type of guitar for sound you are after would be a steel body single cone, like the MM Blues or Busker Delta. I also have one of these, MM Blues. You can find sound clips for all the above guitars on the busker guitars web site.
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Post by jackstrat on Feb 20, 2009 20:22:40 GMT
Hiya Pugsley! Welcome aboard...!! Now I'm not too familiar with the geography of Wales, but you're certainly in the right country to get a great resonator guitar...have a word with your fellow Welshman, our mate and fellow forum member Robin at 's supplied lots of us with serious guitars at great prices under both the Busker and MM brands. As are all of the crew on here, he's full of info and advice too...youi've come to the right place!! I'm not yet twelve months into my existence as a resonator owner, but thanks to these guys, I feel like I've been at it for years!! Niall
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Post by Gerry C on Feb 20, 2009 20:55:55 GMT
I'd concur with all that has been said re Michael Messer and Busker Guitars: I own one and would not part with it! Only other advice to offer is: listen to the great slide players - Son House, Booker White, Mississippi Fred McDowell, Tampa Red, Muddy Waters; these days, Michael Messer (King Guitar is a good starting point), Steve Phillips, Dave Peabody, Kelly Joe Phelps, Dave Kelly, Steve James. All for now but more to come.
Cheerily,
Gerry C
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Post by blueshome on Feb 20, 2009 22:27:37 GMT
Pugsley, 3 of the samples you posted are on amplified guitar, maybe this is the route to the tone you want? In that case a cheap electric and a small valve amp would just get inside your budget, or perhaps a flat-top with a suitable soundhole pick up. The acoustic option would be a budget reso as recommended by those guys above who play them themselves.
I would listen to a bit more of the music and then be sure on the sound you want, there is plenty of audio and video material out there of the masters of the genre and of present day exponents.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 22:55:14 GMT
Pugsely
To take a different angle on this, a resonator guitar is a very different animal from any 'normal' steel string wooden guitar.
Other than a wooden bodied resonator, they are heavy. They can feel very stiff compared to any normal guitar. And they are, to me at least, limited. Essential to get the sound they give, but while you can play slide on a wood bodied guitar you cannot, or I cannot and don't like the sound of, hearing say trad folk played on a resonator.
So i would suggest you consider learning the wonderful blues, and a Busker Cannon is not going to break the bank, and at least think about getting a wooden bodied guitar, and learning some conventional guitar too. The two techniques will overlap anyway.
All the evidence seems to be that Robert Johnson used only a wooden guitar which is I think good to remember from time to time.
best of luck, playing the blues is not usually a source of having the blues.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2009 0:18:22 GMT
Hi Pugsley,
Welcome to our forum. You have certainly found the right place to talk about delta blues & resonator guitars. You have already received some excellent advice and points of view from other members, which is what we are all about....a community.
I don't know where you are based, but in August every year the European Blues Association holds an event called 'Blues Week' - This is a whole week of workshops, classes and jam sessions, all based around acoustic blues. Check out my website for info about Blues Week.
There are numerous tuition DVDs available and I would advise you to get a few so that you get different perspectives on the same subject. One of the DVDs you should get is my own 'An Introduction To Blues Slide Guitar', once again the info on that is on my website.
Now if you are looking for a guitar....you have been advised well - you really cannot buy a better budget priced guitar than a Busker or a Michael Messer MM guitar. For the sound you are looking for you want the steel bodied National sound which is recreated by the MM BLUES model. I know it all reads like b*ll**it from a salesman, but I hope from reading this forum that you have established I am not a smooth talking salesman. I am a musician with a passion for these instruments, and that passion has now led on to me producing my own range of guitars. None of the other resonator guitars in the price bracket you are talking about, apart from the names I have mentioned, are made with the same attention to detail and quality control.
I hope I haven't scared you off!!!
Keep in touch and let me know how you get on, Shine On Michael
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Post by Stevie on Feb 21, 2009 0:44:25 GMT
Whatever you get (and I have to recommend an MM because I have one) I find that new instruments and tunings are allways inspiring. Go for lighter strings if you intend to start off both fingerstyle and slide, it will make slide easier when you inevitably gravitate towards slide with the stiffer strings. If jumping in at the deep end, go for a heavier set. Forum members (mostly) advised me to go for a single cone 12 fret steel body. I believe that nickel strings will deliver the slightly more raw sound that you seek. Seems like inapproriate advice, especially given my lack of experience, but I'd say that once tuned to a G chord (or D) you'll have a great time with any Busker or MM guitar. Push the boat out another £100. It's going to be a false economy to eschew these guitars for a cheaper model from elsewhere. If enough forum members recommend you to the aforementioned guitars, you'd have to come to the conclusion that something special is going on here, I did. Stevie.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2009 11:19:46 GMT
Thanks for all the comments about the MM guitars!
Pugsley, I hope I didn't sound too pushy talking about my DVD & guitars? My apologies if I did.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by Gerry C on Feb 21, 2009 13:23:07 GMT
Michael, be re-assured: you would only sound 'pushy' about your products if virtually every other forum member was saying they werec**p - which, um, does not QUITE seem to be the case!
Cheerily,
Gerry C
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pugsley
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 26
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Post by pugsley on Feb 21, 2009 16:48:41 GMT
Boy am I glad I came on here. Thanks for the replies guys, you've been really helpful. And there was me thinking I'd probably have to import a resonator from the states or something. Turns out the guys i'm looking for are in my back garden. Sweet.
I will definately be getting in touch with Robin, and will hopefully go up to snowdonia to check them out. May even get some hiking in too.
It's funny how it worked out, but I was just browsing the internet for resonator guitars in the UK and I came across this site. At the same time I recieved a text out of the blue from my old man saying that I might want to check out a guy called Michael Messer, as he is coming to play in my hometown, Builth Wells. Then by coming on here i find out that we have fellow welshmen selling some nice guitars. Strange that. So I'll surely be seeing Michael when he comes to town.
OK, I will answer some of your questions/ comments.
Mel - I have the smallest amount of experience with playing guitar. At the time I was really into lap slide players, and due to having really bad finger dexterity, I decided to give lap playing a go. I raised the strings on a normal wooden acoustic and added heavier strings. I really enjoyed playing, but as I said, I found material really hard to come by, so all i had was a Kelly Joe Phelps DVD. I managed to keep up with the first part, and actually played something listenable, but I didn't have the tabs for the rest, so couldn't progress to play anymore. So I printed off some tabs of artists and songs I liked, but most of them had different tunings, and my electric tuner couldn't even recognise the notes I needed for the particular tunings. So the guitar got put down. But to answer your question, I have a little experience with string muting and other basic techniques.
Phil - I think I'd like to start off with an acoustic and go from there. If I ever got good enough then I'd eventually like to get an electro-acoustic and add some distortion and effects.
Barry - I will certainly have a look at the cannon. But I do have a cheap wooden acoustic. The only thing with playing conventional guitar is that my fingers aren't the most flexible, something I inherited from my father, so finger picking would suit me better, which works out great because it's the sound I like.
Michael - The 'Blues Week' sounds like something I'd definately be interested in. I think it would be good for me to be surrounded by players who are interested in the same style as I am. And don't worry, you haven't scared me off. Everyone else has been saying the same thing, which is good enough for me. Catch you in Builth Wells.
Stevie - I'll certainly look into those nickel strings, thanks.
Anyway, I'm a bit of a traveller, but the downside being that I have to find work when I get back. And as you know, it's not a good time to be doing that right now. So I've definately got some blues that need to come out at the moment. The positive side is that it will give me more time to learn guitar I suppose.
Thanks again Pugsley
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pugsley
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 26
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Post by pugsley on Feb 28, 2009 17:08:19 GMT
Well guys, it looks like I can join the club. That’s right, I got me one of them MM Blues, and damn it’s a beast. Happy man right here.
I got in touch with Robin to travel up to his place to see the guitars in the flesh, so on Thursday I took my old man, who has a passion for music similar to my taste, and my friend who has been playing traditional style guitar for just a little while. We kind of lucked upon finding his house, but as soon as Robin opened the door we could hear the resonators kicking out some licks. We honestly thought they had been amplified. There were two other guys testing out Robin’s guitars, so we just sat around sipping on some coffee and listening to these guys, who could play. It didn’t take them long to get their cheque book out let me tell you.
Robin then got out a few guitars suitable for the sound I’m after. He slipped the bottle neck on and played some dirty delta. The sound and playing was EXACTLY what I set out to find. And I’m not an easy man to please, believe me. It took me to some swampland somewhere. The three of us just looked at each other. Well, I couldn’t not walk away without the guitar. So we slapped some nickel strings on and I did.
My friend who plays traditional style didn’t know what a resonator was and hadn’t really given the blues a listen. We converted him that day, and it didn’t take too long. I’m currently ordering a bottleneck slide from Diamond Bottlenecks, but in the mean time I was playing around with my MM blues and my tone bar today. After twenty minutes I had a massive blister on my thumb, a blister on my middle finger, and a blood blister on my ring finger, and that was on my right hand. Oh, my ears were a ringing too. Maybe I was giving it a bit too much, but it was fun. I may have to invest in some finger picks, not for extra amplification but as protection. But as someone on here said, it’s only pain.
I’m still going to struggle to teach myself to play, so if anyone knows of some good material, or even better, post some tunes and how to play them, I would be extremely grateful. I will be using this forum for tips and advise. I’ll be playing mainly in open D or open G, with my main goal on playing the dirty, swampy blues.
Thanks for the advise and pointing me in Robins direction, and thanks Robin for all the help, you couldn’t have been more helpful.
Pugsley
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