1934 Duolian

[Deleted]

Hi Michael,

Could I ask your advice? There's a guy in Manchester selling a refinished 1934 Duolian and I am hoping to go and have a look at it on Saturday (unless someone bids on it unseen). I like the way it looks and I'll know whether I like it to play, but could you give me a couple of pointers in terms of what I should be looking for as a guide to authenticity?

It's for sale on eBay:

cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3752454658&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I had a look at www.notecannons.com and I can't see anything that puts me off. The neck looks too clean to me from the photographs. Would it be common to refinish the neck at the same time as the body?

Regards,

Richard

[Kevin]

Hi Richard, I think this sounds a bit rich for a refinished guitar, I wonder how much is left of the original guitar?
In the world of vintage guitars, originality is king.
This is just my opinion on this, but I have had experience of dealing with pre war Parlor guitars. but at the end of the day it is your dollar, and if you are happy.

before you buy have a look here........

www.resocentre.com/

[Michael Messer]

Hi Richard,

I have had a look at the Duolian and I think it looks pretty good. From what the seller is saying, it is a wonderful guitar. I wonder why he is selling it ....?
It does look like a genuine sale and appears to be in good shape.

I cannot be sure from looking at the photos that the guitar is a solid durable working instrument, but the restoration does look like it is well done. My first Duolian was a plated 14 fret instrument and although not totally original, it was a great guitar.

The neck appears to be all original, the tuners ....do not look original, but that doesn't really matter on a refin'd instrument. The ebony fingerboard will have changed the tone slightly, the classic tone of a great Duolian is to do with the cheap parts used in assembly. However, I have seen numerous Duolians with new fingerboards, the original ones often dissolve and have to be changed. The finish on the body looks good, it looks well done....do you know if it is stove-enamel or paint? Stove enamel will last 100 years, even if you leave it in the garden.

All in all, and knowing you and your playing, it looks like a good guitar if the price is right. Don't pay too much for it, they do turn up quite frequently these days, so don't just buy it because it is an old one. Make sure it is a good one. If it sounds good, plays well and the price is good.....go for it.

My main worry with this guitar is to do with the price.

I would interested to know the serial number - just to verify the date.

Duolians & Triolians are wonderful guitars, nothing sounds quite like them.

Good luck with it.

Shine On (even with a refinished Duolian)
Michael.

[Michael Messer]

In 1978, or possibly 79, on my first visit to Gruhn Guitars in Nashville TN, I missed an opportunity to buy a guitar that will always haunt me! It was Bukka White's Duolian, complete with case with his name painted across it, picks, slide, 6 inch nail and a few other bits & bobs. As I remember it was too expensive at around £600 so I had to let it go. Gruhn's back then was very special, shops like that didn't exist outside of the US. I shoulda bought that guitar!

Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

Many thanks for your input. I've been busy the last couple of days but I'm going to try and get over to see it tomorrow.

Richard

[Larry Conrad]

Hi Richard,

How did it go with the Duolian? I'm no expert, but the price does seem a bit high for a guitar that has been so totally refinished. If that much work has been put into the body, the neck has probably been refinished, or replaced, as well.

Did you do a Google search for "Duolian"? That would bring up offers from all over the world and give you an idea of what they are going for in original and refinished condition.

One thing I haven't seen any comment on: Did you check it for seam separation? If all the seams are not absolutely tight and solid and you have to get the thing resoldered, or if you have any problem like that in the future, that lovely finish will be ruined in a second I think. And as the finishing wasn't done by National, who would match it, and how? You could be looking at a whole new refinishing job.

[Ian McWee]

Hmmm..It certainly looks a peach of a guitar - hope it plays as nice as it looks, Rich My only concern regarding age authenticity would be the 'f' holes. My own, original '33 Duolian (12-fret neck) has the later 'rolled' f-holes - not 'flat - cut' as the photo appears to show...this would put the year of this particular Nat. to be around 1930 - '32. I'm not sure how this would affect the asking price, but it's still a lovely looking guitar!!! Hope you got a good deal mate....

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com

[Deleted]

Well, I never got the time to see it but it didn't sell so I may try and get over there next weekend. The serial no is C4786 if anyone can put a date on it for me? Is there a source of data for National serial nos?

Larry, Ian thanks for your advice. Hey Ian, I'm looking forward to trying out my Diamond glass lap slide tonight. My mate Chris in Swinton ordered it for me with a couple of Ultimates for himself - I'm going to start asking for commission! Just need a few Hawaiian licks now Michael!

[Richard]

Richard

Duolian C4787 is down as a 1930-33 12 fret straight F-holes.

For your info, Duolian serial numbers C6500-7500 are shown as 12 fret 1933-34 with rolled F-holes.

Any help, I think you have to get on your bike and go and have look. - and do let us know!

Possibly, the fact it did not sell could mean something..

[Larry Conrad]

I would suspect that the price is a problem. The guitar is totally refinished, and perhaps other parts are new as well. That wouldn't leave much of the original Duolian. But as others have said, if you like the looks and the sound and feel the price is okay, go for it. It really is a fine-looking guitar.

It's interesting how things change. In the 30s, I am told, you could get a Duolian for about $30.00 and they were in many of the mail-order catalogues! They weren't part of National's up-market range at all. Same with Triolians, which were a bit more expensive.

[Alan]

Its still for sale
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2385&item=3755479502&rd=1

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Mr Messer ! Wow ! That must hurt missing out on buying Bukka White's Duolian.

I bet the 6 inch nail was for when he plays "Poor Boy" lap style (as you can see on videos of him doing such)

[Simon]

I agree with what the others say about the price...

I have a 33 Duolian- with fairly significant refurbishment and a new neck. The originality didn''t concern me because it was for playing- and still cheaper than a new Delphi. However, it only cost me £900.

[Larry Conrad]

Hi Richard,

Following up on what Simon said, it seems to me that the Duolian is overpriced by a lot, even if it is a nice-looking instrument and plays great. Who knows, but I wonder if the seller has just pulled a price out of the air, or maybe he wants to see if someone will pay more based on its looks.

I know you already know this, but maybe it is worth stressing for the benefit of others that Ebay isn't a shop. You buy the thing, trade feedback, and the seller is gone for good. If there is a problem later and you complain, your answer is "it was an auction". I have discussed this with one person who has a lot of experience buying and selling on Ebay, and almost every word he said to me was watch out for this or beware of that.

At a place like the LRC, on the other hand, you get expert advice and a chance to try out many different instruments, issues like setting the thing up can be discussed, and you KNOW 100% that the guitar has been checked out carefully and is exactly what they say it is. If there is a problem later, they deal with it.

So while I'm not an expert (as you know!), you did put this up for discussion so I would revise what I said earlier and suggest that the price just isn't realistic.