|
Post by BigBadDom on Sept 11, 2005 10:01:21 GMT
Hi, When jamming along with friends and playing slide, I can't decide if it's better to play in standard or open tuning. This might be any musical style in any key. I'll have a go at little 'diddly bits' and a simple solo in either tuning. There are advantages to both.
I'm curious to know what other folk do? Standard or open (& maybe capo up to whatever key the song is in)?
Cheers, Dom
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 11, 2005 11:47:25 GMT
Hi Dom,
Personally speaking, I only play slide in open tunings. You can play any key in any tuning, you just have work out the different keys. For example, playing blues in the key of E with the guitar in open G tuning is wonderful. To play in the key of D in G tuning.....7th fret is the root, open is the 4 chord and fret 2 is the 5 chord. To play in the key of G in D tuning....5th fret is the root....frets 10 and 12....and so on.
Shine On, Michael.
|
|
|
Post by BigBadDom on Sept 11, 2005 19:48:04 GMT
Michael, Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's obvious now I think about it - I suppose it's no different to playing bar chords in standard tuning - just moving up & down the neck to suit the key you're in.
It's still all a bit trial and error, this open tuning slide thing, but I'm enjoying it and looking forward to Pocklington again in November.
Cheers, Dom
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2005 16:09:20 GMT
hiya,
i'm a big fan of the CGCGCE tuning - all 1st's and 5th's except the top string (3rd).
avoiding the E string you can easily learn and play all the modal & pentatnotic scales. with a capo you can transpose these up the neck.
never thought i'd be a Dorian mode fan !!
my tricones only got 12 frets (to where the neck joins the body) so in open C i can play in D at the 2nd fret and E at the 4th, beyond that its tricky....... but then (like Michael's mentioned above) you can play in the '5th' key i.e. G in the open C tuning for variety !! possibilities are endless ! (well nearly).
I found the C tuning the easiet to pick up at first, i'm now working on my DGDGBE on another guitar, and its all starting to make sense !
have fun
duggy k
|
|
|
Post by snakehips on Sept 12, 2005 17:33:24 GMT
Hi there !
You can also play in E minor (or E if you add a finger when needed) when in open G Comes in handy at a jam session when I have been in open G and someone starts a song in E. Root (E) chord utilising thumb on 2nd fret, 6th string.
Learnt that off a great guitarist I saw busking in the French Quater in New Orleans in the early 1990's - I must post a photo I have of him one of these days (need to get my scanner working again - hasn't been). He was great - he played jazz on his old chromed Dobro playing all sorts of chords, fretting many different chords BEHIND the slide. I asked him his name several times, but never understood him, over his N'awlins drawl.
Either that or I just play slide in E when in standard tuning - if in standard and in another key, I just capo up to whatever fret I need to keep E chord shape my root chord. (Muddy Waters style). Of course, I'm not talking non stop sliding - you get to do all the basslines and backing you want as per usual.
Then in open D, you can easily play in B minor too. I love to play Little Walter's tune "Blue and Lonesome" like that !
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 12, 2005 23:04:50 GMT
Snakehips, your story brings to mind a photograph taken by my brother Alan a couple of years ago in New Orleans in happier times. On the subject of playing in open tunings; as I said in an earlier post >you can play any key in any tuning. That doesn't just mean barring up the neck, it involves learning chord shapes and runs on the open strings. I mentioned that the key of E is great in G tuning, I did not mean frets 9, 2 & 4 (although that is part of it) - I meant making E A & B chords & runs using the open strings. Also, because E minor & G are so closely related, E minor is a wonderful open G key to play slide. This is not something that one would normally associate with National guitars and blues, more in the bluesy end of bluegrass and Dobro players. I still maintain that EADGBE is not a great tuning for slide and does not work as well as open tunings. There are always exceptions to every rule and in this case Earl Hooker & Robert Nighthawk spring to mind. Interestingly, although Muddy Waters did play in normal EADGBE tuning on stage in his older years, all the classic recordings of him playing slide are in open tunings. A good thread! Shine On, Michael.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2005 6:13:49 GMT
I find that Dobro tuning (GBDGBD) is great for when I'm sitting-in on sessions that could cover a wide range of different styles. Although it's primarily used for country, it's easy to get some melodic sounding chords and leads from this tuning which go well with a variety fo styles. I've also found that sitting in at regular folk sessions with my Dobro is really good way of developing my playing, both accompaniment and lead. I never bother with a capo (I usually play lap-style with a riser nut) , I reckon it's best to learn to play in whatever key is being lead out in the song, that's why sitting-in on this sort of session is so good for stretching your playing
Playing slide in regular tuning is a real challenge, but I found the guy who unlocked this for me was Bryn Hawarth at Kevin Brown's SlideSchool course. Bryn demonstrated playing in standard tuning, using fretting behind the bar (and a really short slide). It requires a fair bit of application, but does get your fngers working in different patterns.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 13, 2005 10:02:12 GMT
GBDGBD is certainly a great tuning and is my main tuning for playing acoustic lap styles. It is not just a Dobro tuning, but was also the main tuning used by the Hawaiian guitar wizards of the 1920s & 30s. Most of the Hawaiian players would pitch it to A (AC#EAC#E) rather than G. This was also favoured by later players in different styles; Jerry Byrd and Bashful Brother Oswald are names that spring to mind.
Of the various G type tunings (for lap styles), I certainly favour GBDGBD as the most versatile and melodic, but it is VERY major (with two Bs in it) and is not great for delta & Chicago blues riffs. The low G tuning DGDGBD suits this style much better and is the one that most of this forum's members use. DADF#AD is also a wonderful lap style tuning and is used a lot by lap style Dobro players. Listen to Jerry Douglas for example.
As far as playing slide in normal tuning goes, well I guess it is just not my thing! Of all the legendary players in different musical styles that I have listened to and studied, I can only think of one or two that play in EADGBE tuning. I am not being critical of the approach, but it is an area that in my own playing does nothing for me at all.
Keep 'em coming!
Shine On, Michael.
|
|
|
Post by davey on Sept 14, 2005 17:34:01 GMT
How about somebody writes a book on the subject ? I'd buy one!
Cheers
Davey
|
|
|
Post by Alan on Sept 15, 2005 11:09:44 GMT
You could put your own together, theres lots of stuff online. I think a simple music theory book and a map of the fretboard in front of you and you could map out all sorts of chords.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2005 6:07:27 GMT
I've almost given up on books: one slide book I got concentrated for the first half on playing slide in standard tuning, and only then move onto altered tunings..pretty well guaranteed to put you off right from the start unless you were really persistent. Books can be helpful, but don't expect a Road to Damascus experience, and I think they are best used not in isolation, but as part of the overall learning path. There is a lot of stuff out on the web, but again, don't expect magic. Two genuinely useful bits of info I found were on Bob Brozman's site about fretting partial chords in open tunings, and on Ritchie Haven's site, about fretting using the thumb in open tunings. I think learning directly from a real person is the quickest and most effective way....than can mean a direct one-to-one teacher, but also workshops and even jam sessions with other players can be really useful.
|
|
|
Post by Sonya on Sept 16, 2005 8:52:05 GMT
Hi ChickenboneJohn (we met at Kev Brown's slideschool earlier in the year)
Like you, I've found learning slide guitar from books fairly unsatisfactory. I was very lucky to be introduced to open tunings right from the start by attending Michael Messer's classes at the EBA Blues Week when I was a complete beginner. I now find the combination of workshops, individual tuition, watching and listening, and - as you say - jamming with others, the best formula for me.
However, I wouldn't rule out video/DVD tuition - there are a lot of useful tips and techniques which can be picked up there, once you've grasped the 'basics'. I have tuition video/DVDs made by Bob Brozman, Hans Theessink and Mike Dowling, each of whom have totally different playing styles. Bob also covers some slide guitar in standard tuning. Michael Messer produced an excellent video a few years ago, which really does explain the first steps to slide guitar playing - whereas most other tuition video/DVDs assume a certain level of playing ability already. Sadly I believe Michael's video is currently 'out of print' but I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong about this.
I'd love to hear if anyone HAS had success in learning from a book as I often wonder if it is just my own inability to 'get it'! Although I can read standard music notation I have a real problem with interpreting TAB and other diagrammatical formats which are sometimes used.
Keep slidin' and enjoying the journey! Sonya
|
|
|
Post by davey on Sept 16, 2005 10:55:32 GMT
Hi folks
I have almost no knowledge of music theory but I'd like to be able to sit in on jams. Michaels' post about playing in D or E whilst in G tuning doubled my musical knowledge, to be honest. I'm pretty fluent in D and G tuning with slide and fingers, and have a reasonable technique but I need to learn some more theory so I can move on a bit. If anyone wants to ramble further about this kind of stuff, maybe even some suggestions about repertoire, I for one would be extremely grateful.
Cheers
Davey
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 16, 2005 16:36:47 GMT
Hi Davey,
You don't need much music theory knowledge to play blues or any other folk music, but you do need some. To be able to play in the main keys in both D & G tunings is not essential, but very useful. Depending on what you are playing, sometimes a capo will get what you want and sometimes it's best to go without one. For example the key of E in G tuning is not one for a capo, but the key of A or B in G tuning are perfect with a capo. If you are playing lap style slide, try the key of C in G tuning.
.................and on it goes!!!
Keep sliding and keep in touch,
Shine On, Michael.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2005 17:42:20 GMT
I'll second Sonya's comments about video tutorials. I've had limited experience of this, but for jazz stuff I learned a lot from a Duke Robillard tuition video, combined with the regular notation and tab this was much better than a book..and does have the advantage over regular lessons in that you can repeat the tricky bits ad nauseam.
As regards theory, if you play in jams you'll soon pick up the basics of playing in different keys..there's nothing wrong with noodling around in the background untill you get the hang of it. I started getting a bit more theory after taking lessons to play more jazz-oriented stuff...and you soon realise that a lot of players have got precious little theory when you start throwing around triad chords or 9th shapes...or better yet try playing in B flat, so don't be intimidated about thinking you don't have the theory.
|
|