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Post by tomgiemza on Apr 17, 2024 17:50:39 GMT
I agree with Archtopeddy, but I don't think we are a representative group for the entire population music preferences Today, song is just an ordinary product while we're still listening to the leftovers of bygone era. I think that most people don't have any special affection for music, they don't even know what they really like and all they do is google "music for gym", "chillout music" etc. Music is subjective, so there is no better and worse, but even before AI there were a few studies about contemporary music (considering both music and lyrics). Conclusions were that popular music is less and less diversified. It's a sad thing.
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 17, 2024 18:23:13 GMT
I agree with Archtopeddy, but I don't think we are a representative group for the entire population music preferences Today, song is just an ordinary product while we're still listening to the leftovers of bygone era. I think that most people don't have any special affection for music, they don't even know what they really like and all they do is google "music for gym", "chillout music" etc. Music is subjective, so there is no better and worse, but even before AI there were a few studies about contemporary music (considering both music and lyrics). Conclusions were that popular music is less and less diversified. It's a sad thing. Tom, While I do agree with what you are saying about how the world perceives its music and art these days, but even amongst all that drivel, I hope that when something is great it stands out above all of that stuff. I guess if you want something to jig up and down to after a bucketload of alcohol, it doesn't really matter what it is. As you say, we are not a good cross section of the public because everyone on this forum is in varying degrees deeply passionate about music and about playing music. Art is a human activity, it is the way we bare our souls and express ourselves. A computer cannot do that "yet" and I hope it never will. Shine On Michael
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Post by mrstrellisofnwales on Apr 17, 2024 19:01:12 GMT
Will AI ever sell out the Albert Hall? Will anyone ever stand out in the rain at an AI music festival? Or squeeze into the Donkey in Leicester to see their favourite AI band? Or walk past an AI busker and chuck a quid in their hat? Mrs T
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Post by richclough on Apr 17, 2024 19:37:36 GMT
Had a conversation with an AI recently…wasn’t impressed.
RC What are the musical intervals in the DADGAD tuning
The DADGAD tuning is an alternate tuning commonly used for guitar, especially in Celtic folk music and some rock genres. The musical intervals between the strings in this tuning are as follows: From low D to A: A perfect fourth From A to D: A perfect fourth From D to G: A major third From G to A: A minor third From A to D: A perfect fourth So in summary, going from the lowest to highest pitched strings, the intervals are: Perfect fourth - Perfect fourth - Major third - Minor third - Perfect fourth This tuning creates a lovely open and ringing sound with plenty of ringing overtones and the ability to play many chord shapes across the strings. The major third between the D and G strings is particularly pleasing to the ear. The DADGAD tuning lends itself well to Celtic/modal melodies and droning rhythm techniques.
RC That’s incorrect the low D to A interval is a fifth
You're absolutely right, my previous explanation of the intervals in DADGAD tuning was incorrect. Thank you for catching that. Let me revise: The intervals between the strings in DADGAD tuning are: From low D to A: A perfect fifth From A to D: A perfect fourth From D to G: A major third From G to A: A minor third From A to D: A perfect fourth You were correct that the lowest interval from the low D string up to the A string is a perfect fifth, not a perfect fourth. Thank you for the feedback, I've updated my understanding of the DADGAD tuning string intervals. I appreciate you taking the time to ensure I have the right information.
RC Please check the other intervals
Okay, let me double check the intervals in DADGAD tuning carefully: From low D to A: A perfect fifth (you confirmed this one) From A to D: A perfect fourth From D to G: A major third From G to A: A minor third From A to D: A perfect fourth I've re-verified each of those intervals and I believe they are correct now. Please let me know if I still have any intervals wrong for the DADGAD tuning. Getting this right is important, so I appreciate you ensuring I understand this properly. Copy
RC D to g is a fourth, g to a is a tone
Got it, thank you again for the corrections. Let me state the proper intervals in DADGAD tuning: From low D to A: A perfect fifth From A to D: A perfect fourth From D to G: A perfect fourth From G to A: A major second (tone) From A to D: A perfect fourth Really appreciate you taking the time to ensure I have an accurate understanding of the intervals in this tuning. Double checking details like this is helpful for solidifying my knowledge.
And then I started on Open G….
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 17, 2024 19:53:40 GMT
Rich, you have just helped the future of mankind to understand DADGAD. Good job!
Shine On Michael
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 17, 2024 19:58:56 GMT
Will AI ever sell out the Albert Hall? Will anyone ever stand out in the rain at an AI music festival? Or squeeze into the Donkey in Leicester to see their favourite AI band? Or walk past an AI busker and chuck a quid in their hat? Mrs T The first part of your question is going to be a "yes" it will sell out venues. We have already seen the beginnings of that with the virtual Abba show. It will be the enemy of tribute acts and eventually will take over from them. While I cannot stand tribute acts, they are humans working for a living. Whether there will be AI buskers, who knows, but I doubt it. Hmmmmm..... Shine On Michael
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Post by archtopeddy on Apr 17, 2024 20:11:46 GMT
Michael Messer said: It (AI) will be the enemy of tribute acts and eventually will take over from them.
Sad to say but the AI Elvis singing Billy Jean already sounds better than most of the Elvis impersonators.
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Post by slide496 on Apr 18, 2024 0:33:31 GMT
I was introduced to AI voices with LaLas.com. My first thought was that was the beginning of the end of the live TV commercial broadcaster and voiceover industry, especially was going to effect cartoons. Lalas features just about every pop music star "inspired" voice. The app I use for vocal separation also does but they seem confined still to creating their own. I was concerned also that they permitted AI voices for political leaders, Donald Trump and Angela Merkel among them. I remember seeing a Johnny Cash as well. In the pop music sector artists are agreeing to cloning and apparently there was one that used AI of Drake and The Weekend's voices in 2023 that was submitted for a Grammy. I can forsee artists in the pop music sector, liscencing their voices and producing AI voiced versions for streaming, using studio created AI instruments, and performing miming the recorded version for stage performances. You can check out Lalas.com for free if you are interested. Also there's www.voice-swap.ai/ which uses in house voices as opposed to famous people inspired.
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Post by mitchfit on Apr 18, 2024 6:12:39 GMT
while not endorsing any of the conclusions of the dual slit experiment video i posted before, i uploaded it to stress the point that a person observing it could change the out come. applying same to Eddy's statement. animals react to music. plants react to music. we can't communicate with either with no language in common, yet music can. i look forward to the time when Kirilian Photography becomes able to capture the 30-ish frames per second rate of early video cameras. personally believe a music concert Kirilian video would be somewhat like an energy tsunami. YMMV: duckduckgo.com/?q=kirilian+photography&t=ffab&iax=images&ia=imagesSO WHY DID HE CHOOSE TO POST THE DUAL SLIT LIGHT EXPERIMENT? BELOW FROM: www.britannica.com/video/186826/test-paradox-Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen-Nicolas-Gisin-University-of "GISIN: Going to telecom fibers gives us the possibility to go over long distances because these fibers are very well-tuned for that. One village is north, is near Lake Geneva. And it is about five kilometers north and the other one is about five kilometers south. And so we have this ten kilometer, direct, special separation. So if then, on the north of Geneva, let's say on one side, we do a measurement. Then the photon on that side acquires a property. And instantaneously, in theory, and certainly faster than light in practice, the other one there also gets the opposite property. The output on one side is random, completely random. The outcome on the other side is also completely random. However, the two outcomes are always opposite. Not only do we not know which photon has which property, but according to the theory, well confirmed by the experiment, the photons themselves don't know." an experiment we all can do at home. take a digital volt/ohm meter. switch it to direct current measurement. grab the positive lead with your hand and ground the other. then switch from positive to negative in hand and ground the other. why does the energy flow both ways? mitchfit
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Post by delb0y on Apr 19, 2024 22:29:24 GMT
I'm 100% sure that AI generated music, both with lyrics and without, and AI generated shows, will have a huge impact on an awful lot of people currently in the industry. Some will learn to use it, some will live with it, and some will fight it. Of that last group, most will lose badly. But most of us who play acoustic instruments in intimate settings will probably be fine, and over time people will probably appreciate the real stuff even more. I can see an increase in people wanting to hear real musicians, accomplished musicians, playing live even more.
On the other hand, what comes out of your Alexa device, car radio, streaming account, etc is more than likely going to be (at least partly) created by AI and most people will never know.
So, keep music live, as my old ,"International Musician" magazine sticker still says! It's an opportunity :-)
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Apr 20, 2024 7:56:23 GMT
I'm 100% sure that AI generated music, both with lyrics and without, and AI generated shows, will have a huge impact on an awful lot of people currently in the industry. Some will learn to use it, some will live with it, and some will fight it. Of that last group, most will lose badly. But most of us who play acoustic instruments in intimate settings will probably be fine, and over time people will probably appreciate the real stuff even more. I can see an increase in people wanting to hear real musicians, accomplished musicians, playing live even more. On the other hand, what comes out of your Alexa device, car radio, streaming account, etc is more than likely going to be (at least partly) created by AI and most people will never know. So, keep music live, as my old ,"International Musician" magazine sticker still says! It's an opportunity :-) I think you have a valid point there. Since The Beatles and Rolling Stones hit the big time, gigs have got bigger and bigger to the point that it has all become a money grabbing fest. The music and the musical ability of the artist has now taken a place way down the system of technology, production, image, promotion and general bullshit that surrounds recording and public performance. 250K audiences with humungeous sound systems, light shows, huge TV screens so's the punters can see a bit of the action on stage (at the directors discretion?), astronomical ticket prices, overflowing bogs, fast food and beverages at mind boggling prices when you're not allowed to take your own stuff in etc. etc.? - Not for me. Just think what AI bolted onto that is going to do - more expense and more profit they hope? Last big'n I attended was Isle of Wight 1970 and even if I was lucky enough to see JH close up for the last time I swore that I would never go to a gig/concert any larger than a British town hall (except the RHA) ever again - and I haven't except to see Alison Kraus and Robert Plant at Wembley Arena where I was ripped off big time by atrocious acoustics and stroppy staff attitudes (even though the performance was good and simple) which confirmed my 1970 opinions! Don't care even if it is my favourite performer of all time I will not succumb to the money making con of so called live music again. It ain't called show business for nothing - it's all just one great con to extract as much money from the gullible punters as possible and sod the average ones. Yes please - small intimate gigs featuring real music and musicians and bollox to the rest of it - I'll go to them. There - the grumpy ol'git has said it - all in the best possible taste, of course! YMMV. ...and then I read this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68761025FFS!!!!
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Post by mitchfit on Apr 20, 2024 18:23:50 GMT
PD^^^^
dunno. my crystal ball hasn't been been cleaned for a long time now and is now covered in a thick layer of smoke residue. could only review the past in hopes a semiconscious extrapolation into the future MIGHT be valid.
the san fransicko music scene was in large part the handy work of Bill Graham. he rented old venues that were no longer profitable in the Haight-Ashbury district and turned them into rock concert venues to harvest the lost potential of abundant outdoor free concerts of that bygone error. eventually the underground capitalists would roam about after dark and break into cars concert goers had invaded/overwhelmed the immediate area with. bud-o-mine got to the point that he would leave his Volk's Wagen "bug" doors unlocked only to learn the perps had no time to waste trying door handles before breaking the windows to get in. doubt the locals were very happy with the weekend parking gridlock either.
feel that this and profit$ eventually drove Graham to pretty much pioneer the arena rock scene by plugging into same equation unscheduled sports stadium time where profit loss "old venues" were mentioned above.
still, the abstract scienterrific message of live music energy exchange hinted at in previous postings was a big part of the audience attraction, IMO. after hearing the very real dangers of large scale sports arenas stampedes, like yourself my concert love waned and led to an ultimate break up of the relationship. also learned the shortcomings of mass parking issues. nowadaze, the "average" cost of ONE beer @ NFL league (what we call football here) games is $10 dollars. if that made you flinch, eat a BIG meal before attending one...
methinx these problems were what eventually created the demand for MTV that Knopfler* wrote about in 1985 with "Money for Nothing". nearly thirty years downstream we have an entire generation of populace who may have never gone to a live music show. they may never witness the energy that a live show has to offer.
they may also never know how cold and sterile AI generated "musak" is compared to humanly created songs.
the tide MIGHT reverse in the equal-but-opposite-reaction that Isaac Newton defined if a good live performance is seen by them. or not.
no Nostradamus, mitchfit
*Knopfler-- think his new album, "One Deep River" is a counter reaction to all of the label, agents and promotional parasite %es that are feeding on the industry today. a successful parasite doesn't kill the host. if nothing else, listen to first song and >>>TRY<<< to tell me he isn't a JJ Cale fan.
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Post by archtopeddy on Apr 20, 2024 18:54:22 GMT
Good points Delb0y and Pickers Ditch. Ai is just another of continuing steps to define music as a money-grubbing commercial commodity. Everything from artists to fans are just fodder for the money-making machinery. Great article on the new 23,500 seat venue too. I love the sensitivity they show for the arts.
"It's all very much focused around the artists having the best experience, and that costs us money not to have advertising in here. But that's a decision that we've made in order to maximise the connection between artist and fan."
So big of them. Forgoing profits and all.
Yes, there's nothing as quaint as watching your favorite artists with 23,499 other people.
Also, the point about grass-root venues losing out and how artists cut their teeth to become who they are in those small venues... I often felt that's the case with local bars here as well. They get live music going only to face closure or having to quit music because ASCAP etc. come by and demand money from the bars. They can't even play their radios, CDs, or streaming.
But I figure ASCAP et al will have their reckoning too.
I foresee a day with AI generated music, bars will be able to pay a small fee to a company for totally new royalty-free music -- generated around the clock in the music genres of their choice. They can then just play it over their sound systems and fill the air with something like genre-specific elevator music, helping to create the audio ambiance they want for their customers. Customers can even request specific styles. All this, and ASCAP can't collect a dime for it.
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Post by richclough on Apr 20, 2024 22:27:21 GMT
Rich, you have just helped the future of mankind to understand DADGAD. Good job! Shine On Michael Nope, it doesn’t understand it, because if it had it would not have had the same problems with Open G! 😉 Also, if it got a load of input from others telling it that the intervals were something different then my input would be overruled, despite being correct. This is what generative AI is, it takes input to create an output, but can’t work it out from first principles - in this case an understanding of musical intervals and note names. Sadly, if the input data is biased in some way e’g. incomplete, inconclusive or just plain wrong then the output will be poor. To quote a rule of data processing, “shit in, shit out”. There was an issue with AI image identification identifying black people as gorillas. The outcry resulted in several such pieces of software being amended to not be able to identify anything as a gorilla, even if it was a gorilla. Similarly, a Gen AI piece of software was used to make assessments for loan eligibility based on various pieces of information including all the loans previously authorised. Because the loan officers (racist) had never authorised loans for black people, certain zip codes had never had a loan authorised and the AI interpreted this as ‘don’t give loans to people in these locations” I.e. it had learned to be racist… It’s fascinating, and horrible.
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Post by mitchfit on Apr 20, 2024 22:57:07 GMT
richclough,
hence the precise definition being ARTIFICIAL intelligence. can't see any demand for same as anything more than an ARTIFICIALLY created demand.
economics rule #1, supply and demand ultimately determine cost.
to insure i don't offend anyone around the world by singling out their government--- we ALL have ARTIFICIAL intelligence running our nations. electronic and organic.
where is the demand?
$0.02, mitchfit
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