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Post by archtopeddy on Apr 16, 2024 15:00:26 GMT
A friend of mine forwarded this to me today. Its had me thinking about it all morning. I told him, "There's a lot I could say here between Wow! and Uuugh! But let me just say, "With AI, it’s a monkey see, monkey do world — and there's a new monkey on the block.” It's not blues music. But if AI can do this with Gypsy jazz...
What do you guys think of this? AE
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 16, 2024 19:35:26 GMT
The scary thing about all this is that it is just the beginning. So while it does sound midi-ish and sample-like, which is what it is, it won't be too long before it doesn't. I like to think and I hope that nothing can replace the human spirit, but given time I am not so sure any more. Then I ask myself, what is the point of music that wasn't played by a living being, or songs that were not written by a human. So I couldn't resist and setup an account with Suno and asked it to write a blues song about travelling with an acoustic slide guitar accompaniment. It slightly misunderstood my command, but it is pretty darn extraordinary. suno.com/song/071deb99-8751-4e20-8650-c67f942a26dcsuno.com/song/baff4caa-dec8-4989-8c8b-8effe29d40dbWho owns the songs I generate using Suno?
If you are a paying subscriber to Suno, then you own the songs you generate while subscribed to Pro or Premier, subject to your compliance with Suno’s Terms of Service.
If you are using a free version of Suno, we retain ownership of the songs you generate, but you are allowed to use those songs for non-commercial purposes, subject to your compliance with Suno’s Terms of Service.
Suno is best suited for making new music with new lyrics, and you must obtain permission for any and all lyrics and other content that you upload to Suno or otherwise incorporate into your songs. See Suno’s Terms of Service for a more detailed discussion about the ownership and usage rules for the content generated using Suno. Holy shit this is as weird as F$%^&!!! Shine On Michael |
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Post by mitchfit on Apr 16, 2024 20:06:31 GMT
^^^^^
roger that!!! my youngest son has forgotten more about computers than i'll ever know. he says there is a computer out there that "creates" endless music in real time now. how could this be possible with NO phrases that were somehow copied from previous artists?
the machine can only regurgitate data that was programmed into the operating program.
not true with humans?
mitchfit
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Post by mitchfit on Apr 16, 2024 20:17:08 GMT
MM said, "nothing can replace the human spirit".
if a machine(s) can, it is only a matter of time before they form a coalition and decide that we need removed from the equation.
that's why humans will never be purely logical,
mitchfit
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Post by tomgiemza on Apr 16, 2024 20:49:30 GMT
Stanisław Lem wrote a great story about Artificial Intelligence in 1981: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIVHe was a polish s-f writer, a true visonary, he was so good that Philip K. Dick thought he couldn't be a real person and "Lem" must have been just a nickname for a communist block massterdmind writers committee, Dick used to scrutinize Lem's books. Lem foresaw AI, almost exactly what NASA and SpaceX has been doing lately and many social changes. AI's music? No thanks. But that gypsy jazz is certainly not bad... |
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Post by archtopeddy on Apr 17, 2024 1:30:54 GMT
So I couldn't resist and setup an account with Suno and asked it to write a blues song about travelling with an acoustic slide guitar accompaniment. suno.com/song/071deb99-8751-4e20-8650-c67f942a26dcHoly shit this is as weird as F$%^&!!! Shine On Michael I like that first version of "your" song. Do I need to ask your permission to play it? hehe. Seriously, thanks Michael for stepping up to trying AI/Suno on a blues song. I actually think it did better at blues than it did on Gypsy jazz. In the GJ song, it's like a competent player who lacks substance and maturity. It opens with a good phrase but then fails in the follow through. It also lacks a good sense of story telling in the solos. When humans play, we play and interact with not only the other players, but with the listeners who are hearing us. ALL of us are part of the music experience. In the GJ song, it lack that sense of interaction. While the "licks" are interesting, they lack the excitment and exploratory nature of good Gypsy jazz. Also the timing is too perfect lacking the pulse of good GJ and/or other music. AI reminds me of a story: There was a really talented manouche guitarist who was a peer of Django Reinhardt whose name I can't remember. Anyway, he gave up playing guitar and began selling cars. When asked why he did this, he said (I'm paraphrasing here), "I have his hands, but I don't have his mind." |
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Post by mitchfit on Apr 17, 2024 3:03:34 GMT
archtopeddy said, "When humans play, we play and interact with not only the other players, but with the listeners who are hearing us. ALL of us are part of the musical experience." did you ever hear about the double slit experiment? through many recreations of this since the late 1800s, it seems to imply that a human observer may contaminate the experiment. see: the observer effect in human behavior paragraph in posted link below: www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-human-behavior-inspired-double-slit-experiment-outcome-kumar-jenhci don't even pretend to be able to explain this, mitchfit |
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 17, 2024 8:15:23 GMT
archtopeddy said, "When humans play, we play and interact with not only the other players, but with the listeners who are hearing us. ALL of us are part of the musical experience." did you ever hear about the double slit experiment? through many recreations of this since the late 1800s, it seems to imply that a human observer may contaminate the experiment. see: the observer effect in human behavior paragraph in posted link below: www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-human-behavior-inspired-double-slit-experiment-outcome-kumar-jenhci don't even pretend to be able to explain this, mitchfit Hmmmm....ooooeeerrr......I think I'll stick to playing slide guitars writing songs and going for walks in the woods. AI and any form of art is a strange concept, because however good it gets at doing it, what's the point. AI can't do this..... Shine On Michael |
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Apr 17, 2024 9:07:02 GMT
Interesting as all this technology may be I get more and more worried as time goes by about how it is all going to end - and I'm not just talking about the human race here. I'm of a generation that has seen and contributed (me included) to massive change on this planet and I'm now feeling VERY guilty and I'm sorry that we allowed and caused all this to happen. This thread could get political in a short time so I'm going to stay out of it and play my acoustic guitar for fun during the few years left to me. I also hope that the youngsters wake up to what has happened and is happening and bring everything back to some sense of reality, whatever that may be. ...says PD, using the interweb.  |
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 17, 2024 9:26:15 GMT
There should be copyright protection to stop this from happening. As amazing as it is, it is also insulting. Johnny Cash had a great sense of humour and loved a good laugh, but he would have hated this!
Phew.... WTF is going on!!!!!
Shine On
Michael
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Post by delb0y on Apr 17, 2024 11:16:23 GMT
I really liked both those Wanderer's Blues (In a guilty way) - am I to assume that everything, including vocals, is AI ? If so, then the future is scary indeed - we're probably at about mile # 1 in the AI journey and it's going to get exponentially "better". By mile # 50 the world may be very different indeed!
Derek
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Post by mrstrellisofnwales on Apr 17, 2024 12:04:17 GMT
Personally I prefer the late Jeremy Hardy’s version of Anarchy in the U.K. sung to the tune of Blaydon Races. At least that was real. Robots should be made to pay income tax at a rate of 99% of the the earnings of he human they replaced.
Mrs T
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Post by delb0y on Apr 17, 2024 12:24:11 GMT
I guess the real test will be when we hear new music and don't know if it's human or AI. It will be very easy (compared to creating music) for AI to generate a whole online biography for a new musician. When we start genuinely liking such music then the end truly will be in sight...
Derek
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Post by Michael Messer on Apr 17, 2024 12:29:49 GMT
I really liked both those Wanderer's Blues (In a guilty way) - am I to assume that everything, including vocals, is AI ? If so, then the future is scary indeed - we're probably at about mile # 1 in the AI journey and it's going to get exponentially "better". By mile # 50 the world may be very different indeed! Derek It was 100% created by AI. All I did was feed it an idea. It is an extremely dangerous tool, if used by the wrong people. Let's stay with music as it is all too easy to drift How's this for a horrible one.... Or if you just want down right creepy and done by someone that isn't very good with their AI software.... Shine On Michael |
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Post by archtopeddy on Apr 17, 2024 17:30:51 GMT
Thanks you Michael for the Beatles film. It perfectly captures what I meant when I said, "When humans play, we play and interact with not only the other players, but with the listeners who are hearing us. ALL of us are part of the musical experience."
Consider these lyrics:
"So far away, doesn't anybody stay in one place anymore?"
"Just yesterday morning, they let me know you were gone. Suzanne the plans they made put an end to you."
"Don't go changing, trying to please me. Don't change the color of your hair."
"They got a wall in China, a thousand miles long. To keep out the foreigners they made it strong.
I got a wall around me, you can't even see. It took a little time to get next to me."
"Sometimes I wonder, how I spend
The lonely nights
Dreaming of a song
The melody
Haunts my reverie
And I am once again with you."
"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on"
From Carol King to Hoagie Carmichael; from James Taylor to Billy Joe and Paul Simon to The Battle Hymn of the Republic, lyrics are what tap to the human soul. AI can't understand those feelings or understand how to link simple words together to generate those deeper emotions.
I doubt that AI would understand what Carol King means when she asks, doesn't anybody stay in one place anymore? I doubt AI would know why Billy Joe says don't change the color of your hair.
Yes, AI might not know. But we, as humans, do.
We (humans) write songs to convey messages. And there is no perfect formula. Sometimes a melody leads us to the lyrics; other times a thought provokes a feeling that leads us to a melody. In the best songs, melody and lyrics live in harmony. They have "life". That is why we understand and love them. This is something AI may never understand.
Sorry for the longwinded post, but I had to express something that put our human efforts back in balance with the recent whirlwind of AI concerns and discoveries. AE
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