Bell Brass Body Cracked Along Solder Line

[buchajski]

Few months ago I bought Paramount 1933 Tricone. It was a B-stock from the start, however there were no glaring issues with it, so I smelled a deal.

However after some time I noticed a hairline crack along the top/side solder line. I assumed it was a bump or just faulty nickel plating. But the line grows wider and longer, nickel plating starts to come off slightly

I inspected the top's lip inside, to check if I can find the cause, and I noticed that there is indeed some gap in parallel to the crack, slightly more than fingernail-thick. There is seemingly no soldering, but probably it's just extremely little of it.

I can't really tell whether it's lazy soldering, the aftermath of decent hit, or management messed with the wrong intern. Or all of it. I was not able to get any additional details on it from Thomann.

Now to the question, given that the construction of those guitars is quite hefty, will the crack stop progressing once the tensions between metal sheets evens out? Or does it require some immediate attention of the guitar doctor/wizard.

As for home remedies, would filling the inside gap with baking soda+superglue stop it from progressing? I am not really aware of the scale of the tension between metal there. If it's through the roof, that would render my question dumb.

For the sake of clarity, please disregard any esthetic concerns. I can live with stripping nickel. I just don't want to break my precious shiny thing.

In the attached photo, I marked the end of the concerned area with blue line. The rest are just dark reflections.


Thank you in advance!

Attachments:

[Michael Messer]

Hello Buchajski

Welcome to our forum.

You really didn't have to highlight in bold and underline the important parts of your message as I am sure we are all quite capable of reading a paragraph of text.

You have bought a B-stock guitar and the problem is indeed lazy or bad soldering. I doubt that it will continue to open up, but I am just guessing because I have not seen a metal bodied guitar with such poor soldering. I don't think glue of any type will hold it, the only way to fix it properly would be to solder it and that would damage the nickel plated finish. So my advice is to leave it alone.

You could try superglueing the edges of the nickel plating where it is lifting from the body, but that is all you can do. Live with it and enjoy your guitar.

By the way - Your guitar is not bell brass. It is standard brass. Bell brass is brass with tin added into the mixture and it helps to make the brass more resonant. It is used by some bell manufacturers and foundries. Guitar companies, OMI Dobro and various other brands have said their guitars are bell brass, but they are not.

Paramount Guitars is a company started by a distribution company that wanted to be the European distributor for MM Guitars. When I refused their offer they decided they could do it without me.

I assume it is a B-stock because Thomann found the problem and were unable to return the guitar.

Thomann would not be able to help or advise and neither would Paramount because they are just sales people.

I am not trying to be negative or competitive, just helpful.

Shine On
Michael

[buchajski]

Thank you so much for quick and detailed reply!
I meant no offense by bolding and underlining the crucial parts. I did it to just make it easier to navigate through important parts. But it seems I have overdone it. (years of being a teacher takes it's toll, I believe)

Thanks for explaining on brass/bell brass, that's definitely something to keep in mind.

I'll secure the bare area with glue as you advised. I was expecting that whatever money I saved on this deal, I'll have to make up with my own work, but that was nasty of them.

I am just guessing because I have not seen a metal bodied guitar with such poor soldering

First post here, and straight to the cabinet of oddities. Odd debut.


As for soldering, then I believe the day I get this fixed will also be the day I'll get a brushed brass finish 

Thanks again, and have a great day!
Buchajski

[Michael Messer]

My pleasure. I am happy to have been able to advise you about your guitar.

You are welcome as a member of our community.

Shine On
Michael

[neilm]

Hi
There is an old engineering trick that stops cracks in metal.....it sounds a bit drastic but isnt really.  you drill a very small hole at each end of the crack.....the hole can be very small and reduces the stress in the crack significantly. you have to be sure to catch the very tip if the crack. As to whether you would be prepared to drill into your guitar...well only you can decide that.

Neil

[vastopol]

Drilling holes in this area might be tricky and wil add more strangeness to this point.

It works well on cimbals, or on one piece flat surfaces; here we have to pieces joined by soldering, the perimeter of the top went at 90 degrees against the side, the opening line wont be stopped by holes.

The superglue is not very strong.

I think about synthetic metal soldering,... in France we have different brands making this bi-componement resin, some are even silver colored.

In my naive youngness I had built a single-cone resonator made of zinc (because zinc can shine once polished).

All the soldering job made with "ara-metal"

It was a success until I discover the need of a truss-rod....so it became a lap steel; a friend still playing on it, since almost...20 years.

You can adjust the viscosity, and the open time by mixing more ore less of the second ingredient.

I will mask with tape the nickeled surface around, push the resin inside the space with some plastic sheet to try to fill the space, once done, just wip with acetone on a clean cloth (change the cloth few times to get the cleaner as possible, but not too much on the open zone, to let enough resin to get a nice and even surface).

Take care of your choice on tape, some chinese silvering are thick and may peel if you choose a too sticky tape.

So, get rid of the tape before complete drying, see if another cleaning is needed.

That's the way I once repaired my gas pump on my first car (a Mini Austin...some forum members should appreciate this memories), and she had a very long life.

Off course do it outside, with gloves and mask, all this smells during the process...(and it has nothing to do with french cheese).

My Duolian had some of these opening solders, but they don't move at all.

Best wishes for this repair.

[buchajski]

Thank you for all the advices! 

My first thought while reading neilm's and vastopol's advices was how about mixing those 2 ideas?

Drilling in the guitar is not the first rodeo, so how about drilling 2 holes in the inner lip that is slightly disconnected from the guitar's side. And then apply this ara-metal from the inside, it would fill up all the gap, and at the same time, it would get a good hold of the top's lip.

As for nickel plating, based on the flakes that came off of it until now, I can confirm it's quite thick


The crack is growing, that's for sure, so I am thinking about waiting a bit, for the tension to balance out a bit. The esthetics are not a big deal to me really. The longevity however...

I would like to explain myself on super glue as well. I was planning to use it with soda to cause the polymerization effect. There's also an exothermal reaction tied to it, so it would heat up the metal in this particular place and release some additional tension.


I have exhausted my paint skills to get you decent visual of my idea.
I think I will use ara-metal for bonding. Looks less.. Improvised.
I am not sure though, if it's not overdoing it and overcomplicating the whole process.

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[neilm]

Hi again

you can get a filler for superglue....i have used it many times but never on a guitar. Link below to Amazon uk....but most engineering suppliers sell it.


www.amazon.co.uk/Bond-Strong-Adhesive-Filler-Powder/dp/B06WW4DQG8/ref=sr_1_6?crid=YILFX5ZX1B34&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wuu56dcFPsIXnepT8FVotbiuz-MXUVMY_oE5ON6kelai50ruMjq-QtqvU9tJdvlAmRla9BYsPuQkp99SKUT_BY9W-hlSZSbQPfJeZchIIT2HyrQe9N-tDq12yzwJDUFygk_O9pPfJc7dTRezzlTITTlKzUcQEePl1ZyXPCA2cY1z5h0Kv-dgqHH5kDEAUV9bR3YPLO291Jyqg7FaVlt8neviUVinwYj44J5lI8lvxVf1rOzUfF5H_Bhrhku8_NDDf5t_t2a8nvgzOElWZVw4Gr2I0jsF9n8AOoFfInTUpcc.pty-yvVzaWczpbc9YcX9-wy4aacQKxS-9rfIyvlouhE&dib_tag=se&keywords=superglue+filler&qid=1711986540&sprefix=superglue+filler%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-6

[vastopol]

Your drawwings are clever but I don't think there is much tension in this area, to my eyes drilling holes might not add any strenght, and maybe add some new disturbance (and look a lot more ugly even nicely done).

If ever you want to sell this one someday, a simple crack might look more natural than holes.

Think also about the fact you see this crack bigger than it was because you worry about it, but I bet someone else can hardly notice this without carefull looking.

Holes won't stop the crack in this case, because the two parts are soldered, it works only a single flat foil, but here's an angle and solder join will let run the crack (if the rest of the soldering stays weak (but it might be located in a short area).

If glueing wont suffice to stop it, adding some glued L section of whatever metal you had might be interesting, but it seems you don't have much room inside the guitar between side and soudwell.

Both of my old Nationals have those kind of openings, but they don't move at all, they might be the result of some beating while jumping on freight trains ?...or what ever my imagination may read by looking at those battle scars.

On yours, maybe the soldering was too lightly done, or the polishing done before plating was done too hard (but I wonder if a polishing weel can cut trought a modern asian top because they are thicker than the sides, and thicker than the oldies).

A detail about ara-metal, it seems to be more fluid in relatively hot weather, so it will run deeper and faster in the crack.

Perhaps give a try on a biscuit box to see if gently heaten surface won't drive the hardening process too fast.

It will gives you a training too and more confidence in your skills.

Get well prepared with a thin tool that can enter inside the crack to push the glue, translucent plastic from any packing cut in blades is helpfull, but give a try before glueing to be sure if it's thin enough, and wont stay stucked inside too.

If it's too thick you may found other ones thinner in the recycling bin.

If it feel too soft under your hands, you can give some strenghtening just by partly done folding on one end, it may gives a kind of handle, somewhat more rigid (but let flat the other end to get some spoon like shape).

Or let it alone if it won't open more over time.