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Post by bignatz on Mar 9, 2024 3:21:06 GMT
OK, here's another weird one that I should not have taken on. I think I might have a variant of a gambling addiction...taking on strange, near basket case instruments. I stupidly bought this Lyon and Healy late '10s/early 20s short scale (24 in.) 12 string. Very narrow fretboard for a 12 (1 3/4 in), had one of these years ago and for certain applications it was kind of interesting. White oak back and sides, which used to be a fairly common tonewood during this period. Here's the thing...somebody mentioned that the scale length could be increased, I would imagine by moving the bridge plate, drilling new holes for the pins, etc. However, I really don't understand the math involved, and how this could possibly work without a new fretboard with frets to scale as well. I know it's a newbie kind of question, but isn't it impossible to increase scale length without a new fretboard/frets? My other idea was to leave it as is (after crack repair and replacement of purfling/binding, new bridge, etc.) and either stinging it as a 9 string or even a 7 string with a doubled G, or even turning it into an Irish bouzouki variant with 5 courses. Feel free to call me out on any of these ideas...or if you have any others. Edit: This does have the remains of a Columbia brand label inside. Totally forgot about this. Will post a photo of the label in case it tweaks anybody's memory or knowledge of whether or not this actually is an L an and H -made instrument. Thanks!  Attachments:
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 9, 2024 7:58:45 GMT
The scale length is determined by the position of the frets,( twice the distance between the nut and 12th fret) not the bridge. Moving the bridge will just make it play out of tune, the neck would have to be replaced to increase the scale length .
Pete
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Post by davey on Mar 9, 2024 13:45:36 GMT
Interesting Guitar. I imagine it started out with a pin bridge with two strings per pin & acquired the tailpiece when the bridge failed. I can't see any 12 string Guitars in the Washburn / Lyon and Healy book which I have although there are a couple here and there on the internet.
It's an unusual and fairly rare Guitar, I'd try and get it back to original shape if possible. It's perhaps safer to stick with the tailpiece rather than a pin bridge, there's a lot of pull from 12 strings.
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Post by bignatz on Mar 10, 2024 4:39:07 GMT
 Hi Davey, You're right, they're not in the catalogues, but this is the second one that I've seen like this and internally it looks like a lot of the L and H guitars of the period. I'm also being stupid in that I forgot that it does have the remains of a Columbia brand label on the inside. I'll post a photos of the label if people are interested. My thinking was that since Columbia was one of those brands made by L and H at the time the this is an L and H instrument. Any ideas if it might be perhaps made by another company? I really don't know what the repair guy was talking about in terms of messing with the scale length. I now have serious doubts about his competence after reading this nonsense from him. Plus, as you mentioned, these are very rare. I do think that I'll restore it to it's original pin bridge configuration and string it extremely light, and will probably just turn string it to be a 7 or 9 string at the most. Thanks! Great video by the way. Joe |
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Post by davey on Mar 10, 2024 10:51:12 GMT
Hi
yes I'd like to see the label.
Washburn Guitars don't seem to turn up in Europe, I've had one and Steve at Beltona had one, both the "New Model" circa 1905 with really nice Rosewood back and sides, Cedar neck. Steve had to take his apart to repair it and said the rosewood was heavier than the rest of the Guitar.
I think the early Washburns are as good as any Instrument I've ever seen & I wish I hadn't sold the one I had. I think I was in search of sheer volume at the time & got a j45.
Cheers, Davey
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Post by davey on Mar 10, 2024 10:56:54 GMT
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 10, 2024 13:04:06 GMT
Interesting Guitar. I imagine it started out with a pin bridge with two strings per pin & acquired the tailpiece when the bridge failed. I can't see any 12 string Guitars in the Washburn / Lyon and Healy book which I have although there are a couple here and there on the internet. It's an unusual and fairly rare Guitar, I'd try and get it back to original shape if possible. It's perhaps safer to stick with the tailpiece rather than a pin bridge, there's a lot of pull from 12 strings. That's Neil Harpe playing in this video. Neil is an authority on Stella guitars, and very knowledgeable about Lyon & Healy and other similar brands. He's a great player too. Shine On Michael |
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Post by alexkirtley on Mar 10, 2024 15:42:40 GMT
I would have bought it too, looks a very fun guitar
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Post by resonatadog on Mar 10, 2024 19:38:25 GMT
Here’s Ted Woodford a brilliant repairman that may interest you. He has a few films fixing Lyon and Healy’s
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Post by bignatz on Mar 10, 2024 20:48:46 GMT
Hey Davey, see the posted photo as a edit, above. It's about as good as I can get until I pull the strings. I've seen this label before. Not much of it left on this one, I'm afraid... Hi yes I'd like to see the label. Washburn Guitars don't seem to turn up in Europe, I've had one and Steve at Beltona had one, both the "New Model" circa 1905 with really nice Rosewood back and sides, Cedar neck. Steve had to take his apart to repair it and said the rosewood was heavier than the rest of the Guitar. I think the early Washburns are as good as any Instrument I've ever seen & I wish I hadn't sold the one I had. I think I was in search of sheer volume at the time & got a j45. Cheers, Davey |
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