1934 Duolian partially restored - is this ok?

[schlumpfmeister]

Hi everyone,

I come back to a post 2 weeks ago about a 1934 Duolian that had been offered to me but had technical issues.

it has been offered to me again after some adjustments and the price coming down a bit. I am still wondering whether the partial Restauration is well made and the instrument ready to played for a while now and I greatly appreciate your suggestions and opinions!

EDIT: I have removed the video as the discussion has been finished by now and the video was part of personal communication.
Here you find a link to a video the seller has shared about the repair: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pkk1e5nyshszfnv4kc5bu/IMG_7684.MOV?rlkey=3u68mnwojhpfuteymynz6mdlr&dl=0

Here is a link to where the seller originally got it from: reverb.com/de/item/74775772-national-duolian-resophonic-guitar-spanish-neck-14-fret-circa-1936-galvanized-green-gray?show_sold=true

When I inspected the guitar a while ago the neck had been repainted glossy, but supposedly with NPR nitro lacquer. The action was low (a bit above 3mm) but there was no break angle over the biscuit and the strings sat almost flush over the cone cover, the e string rattled in the nut. This is supposedly all fixed now by way of a new NPR biscuit and further neck reset (the 2nd?). To me it almost looks as if the neck has moved too much inwards changing intonation? 

supposedly the seller has an offer for 4200€ already.

Thanks for advice!

Best Andreas 

[bonzo]

Hi Andreas. I think if you can afford this guitar you should buy it! You've had plenty of time to consider all the negatives and you still can't get it out of your head. There are as many positive things about the guitar that I personally think outway the negatives. Comes down to extreme gas and price. Make an offer if you are seriously thinking of buying, or you may be thinking 'I wish I had' for a while! Good luck, keep us up to date. 👍🎸

[Michael Messer]

Hi Andreas

Having looked at the Reverb listing and watched the video, my opinion has not changed.

Firstly.... and it doesn't affect the guitar, but it does prove the seller's lack of knowledge about National guitars. He is advertising it as a "galvanized" guitar. Anyone that knows anything about Nationals would NEVER refer to that finish as galvanized. That is what people say when they know nothing about them at all. Galvanizing is a manufacturing process where a coating of zinc is applied to steel to offer protection and prevent rusting. Galvanized finish does not chip off or rust, that is the whole point of it. The finish on this guitar is a painted finish...It is called a "Duco" finish and the word "Duco" is used by everyone that knows anything about them. Because he has used that word, I am sorry but I cannot believe anything else he has said about his work on the guitar, or his previous experience. Some of what he is saying about working on them is just not correct.

I cannot recommend that guitar. It is an average nice condition National Duolian and I would date it as a 1935 instrument. As to what has been done to it, we just don't know and for that reason I would leave it alone. It may be a nice one, but we just don't know.

Shine On
Michael

[bonzo]

Was posting at the same time as Michael! I of course agree with everything he says. But you Andreas are in the process of falling in love with this guitar so any advice given here will be like your folks saying 'she's not right for you'!

[snakehips]

Hi there !

On the “surface” it sounds loud, full and a decent amount of tone.
Hut at the end of the first bout of strumming in the video, the guy strums the bass strings harder - and they string strings growl in a non pleasant manner - like there is still something wrong in there.
He also states he replaced the cone - why ?
If the original cone is still available, make sure you get it !


The fretboard extension looks terribly thick - and I don’t believe Marc Schoenberg would have advised him to do a shim like this.
Looks to me he hasn’t changed the neck angle at all, but shimmed the whole fretboard extension up, the same thickness along the extension, rather than a thin to thinner shim that is barely noticeable.

I would ask for photos of the neck to body join - from each side AND from the back of the body. I’m interested to see if the neck heel is pushed up to the guitar body top a few mm’s, exposing some Duco paint where the base/bottom of the heel would have been. Look for a different colour of any Duco paint previously covered up by the neck heel - as the colour will not have faded, unlike the rest of the guitar.
IF any Duco is seen at the base of the heel,- different colour to the rest, then the guy has just shifted the neck up a few mm’s - and added a layer of wood under the fretboard extension, instead of changing the neck angle.

Also, the break angle over the bridge still looks negligible- and not his absolute guess of 8 degrees ! That was laughable !!!


I wonder if Marc Schoenberg has really been helping this guy - but if so, I’d be interested to know what he thinks if this guy’s work.

As much as this guitar looks great (other than the ugly thick fretboard extension), there will always be more Duolians cropping up. Save your money for a better Duolian - and leave this dog alone.

[bonzo]

Hi again Andreas. You've heard from two top guys both saying to leave it alone. You asked for advice and you've got it.
My tongue was firmly in my cheek earlier. Only because I know what it's like to really really want a Duolian. I waited and passed or missed out on some but now I have two. Very happy, bought at a fair price and in nice condition (well one of them was but that's another story'). Walk away and keep looking 👍

[schlumpfmeister]

Thanks everyone for the advice and sorry for the spelling error, of course it is not from 1942, but supposedly 1934 or 1935.

i trust your assessment and will finally walk away, no matter how much I wanted to make ends work…

Thanks again, best regards, Andreas 

PS I will remove the video after a while and then also the link to it.

[bonzo]

Deep breaths, be strong Andreas 💪 🎸

[Michael Messer]

Feb 15, 2024 10:23:01 GMT schlumpfmeister said:

Thanks everyone for the advice and sorry for the spelling error, of course it is not from 1942, but supposedly 1934 or 1935.

i trust your assessment and will finally walk away, no matter how much I wanted to make ends work…

Thanks again, best regards, Andreas 

PS I will remove the video after a while and then also the link to it.

Andreas, It is the right decision to walk away from this guitar and from the seller.

Snakehips is absolutely correct. I did not want to write all the details of what I saw and heard, and that was my reason for saying what I said. There is no way Marc would have told him how to do a neck angle in that way and I doubt if Marc showed him anything.

Another point is that he talks about the steel top sinking over the years. That is just not true.

A beautiful Duolian will turn up that is just right for you.

Shine On
Michael

[richclough]

I watched the video. The more he stated it was perfect, the more I wondered what was wrong…😉