tort court report

[mitchfit]

Tort law definition-

The legal term tort refers to an action in which one person or entity causes injury, harm, or damage to another person or entity. A tort liability may occur as a result of intentional acts, a negligent act, a failure to act when the individual had a duty to act, or a violation of statutes or laws.

for this forum i will use just guitar litigation cases from the past.

did a deep dig after MM reported that Chaz Jankel's guit used for new album was a Yamaha FG 300 "Hummingbird" model. my thinking was the clear intention to visually mimic Gibson's Hummingbird appearance eventually led to that model's discontinuation back when many American guit companies sued Japanese manufacturers for damages in the 1970's.

NOT TRUE. close comparison shows that the FG 300's pick guard bird has flown. also the guard outline is different. the Yamaha bridge is intonation adjustable and very different looking from Gibson's fixed bridge. but they do look very similar.

www.vintageandrare.com/uploads/products/46317/1764060/original.jpg

rvb-img.reverb.com/image/upload/s--SSMiocIz--/a_0/f_auto,t_large/v1706708533/in7wj1ukcy28bvyzg34e.jpg

this seems odd as Fender got sued/warned of possible legal action by Gretsch in 1950 because they made the Broadcaster guitar. it was deemed infringement as Gretsch made a drum set named Broadkaster. (?) the truth can be as strange as the evening news telecasters? net result is that guits made between the original "Broadcaster" and the eventual 1951 "Telecaster" names are presently referred to as "NOcaster" models. if that somehow makes sense.

having learned a hard lesson from that, Leo Fender patented the "offset waist" cutaways on the Jazzmaster guitar that was released in 1958. this led to legal problems when Gibson put out the Firebird model in 1963. should Gibson have sued Pontiac in 1967 when they started building the Firebird automobile? even though the guitar featured an inovative "neck-through" one piece wood slab that went from head stock to the other end of the body to theoretically improve vibration transfer. oddly it was not because the inverted Fender style head stock that Fender complained. it was due to the upper fret access cutaways being offset. honest.

then Gibson sued Ibanez in the 1970's because their head stocks resembled the "open book" profile they had on SOME of their guits.

then Gibson sued Paul Reed Smith because the outline of their "Single Cut" model in 2000 (paraphrased) "could be mistaken for a Les Paul in a smokey bar by the (drunk?) audience". really, they won!

now unscrupulous profit chasing sellers even attach "pre-lawsuit" labels to models that never were involved in court litigation at all. this because the public has been duped into believing that means those made before the alleged mandatory change were made better. discerning buyers that they are.

now it's the wild west with overabundant tort lawsuits robbing the bank armed only with a notice to appear.

duckduckgo.com/?q=gibson+sues+guitar+copy+maker+company&t=ffab&ia=web

other than indulging all of my inner cry baby urges, what's the point here?

i have a Gibson S1 that i love. being brutally honest methinks the "S" stands for Stratocaster. 3 each single coils and a bolt-on neck--why weren't there any tort lawsuits resulting from this guit? would like to get a Fender-ish 25 1/2" neck for it because i strongly feel it would ring out and sustain much better than the Gibson-ish 24 3/4" OEM neck. especially with light gauge strings.

to my knowledge neither of those brand names have any legal claims to scale length, likely only because it would be hard to prove they originated ANY particular scale length in court.

LET THE REAL WHINING BEGIN:

i contacted Warmoth Dot Com to price a custom built drop-in neck replacement. kind of a trip down memory lane as i went to Clover Creek Elementary School as a kid between Tacoma and Puyallup Washington. that is where their store is located. this would not render a lesser resale value as it could be stone stock again by just changing necks.

suchuva clever boy!!!

got in touch with a real nice guy at Warmoth and got a base price for a beautimus flamed maple neck with the frets i wanted and fine adjust tuners. then i killed the deal entirely when i told him it was for an S1 Gibson. he honestly explained to me that he COULD NOT replicate the Flying V style head stock. to keep the legal parasites from Gibson at bay. also explained they had made a deal with Fender to replicate their necks when asked how same was possible. withholding his name to protect him from any problems here. he suggested i contact Gibson's Custom Shop for a neck custom made to fit their guit. itself answered expressing a doubt that Gibson would build me a neck with the "other guy's" scale length, but said i would let him know how it went. this, because he had kindly burned a lot of time in emails just to help me out.

FINALLY THE PUNCH LINE:

contacted a Custom Shop employee who i will not name either. he took a long time to respond, and that seemed like he didn't have the time of day for me. eventually the tersely worded email explained the Gibson Custom Shop would not make my custom scale length neck for my OEM Gibson guitar. no reason given.

Gibson Custom Shop--my sincere thanks for your time,
mitchfit

[Pickers Ditch]

A thought Mitch...

Would Warmoth make a neck to your spec. with a 'paddle headstock' and then you get one of your local chippies/luthiers to cut it to shape, drill the tuner holes and lacquer it accordingly?
It's then you (and maybe your woodworker) that Gibbo have got to find and sue(if they can).

[pete1951]

Feb 7, 2024 3:33:56 GMT mitchfit said:

. should Gibson have sued Pontiac in 1967 when they started building the Firebird automobile?
mitchfit

According to Tom Wheeler’s book ( American Guitars) Fender hadn’t chosen a name for their Jaguar guitar when this photo was taken........should the makers of the E type in the picture have sued?
Pete

[mitchfit]

Pickers Ditch,

you make a valid point. through the very long series of emails to Mr. X at Warmoth, i counter offered with devious ploys to circumvent the existing legal guidelines. one could make a truthful observation about how underhanded such actions are. guilty as charged, your honesty.

when forced to deal with a less than ideal financial system, the only recourse is to find loopholes in the accepted legal precedents. i will write a public retraction/apology here to anyone who gives up real evidence this is not how the legal system actually works...

more concisely, the only lawful means of hurting a financial institution is to hit them below the money belt. this is my plea of "guilty, with an explanation" for Orville Gibson's legions of law experts. not an indictment of collusion with Warmoth, who i will show wanted no part of this below.

i found in their online catalog was a select grade of highly flamed blank maple option with a shovel shaped head on it much like your jpg. magnificent blonde on blonde neck much like ones originally offered for this model. [mine has a rosewood fret board.] in theory the 1975 year of manufacture doesn't exist because the first ones built all used modified Flying V overstock necks whose serial #s date back to the late 1960s. mine is one of those and can be easily identified by stamped in serial number on rear of headstock:



then i offered to remove the neck and ship both halves to them in a shipper proof package. this, in order to center the 12th fret in an unknown dimension equation. then planning to modify their product to correct Flying V head stock profile. Mr. X then told me he was leery of even shaping the neck to fit in the S1 routed pocket. looking back, this was a wise decision on his part because the email chain made my intentions very clear. same could be also be accessed by the court if any legal action followed.

still, i like your thinking about this.

pete1951,

an odd coincidence you chose to compare the Jaguar(s) for an example. my first electric was a used one bought with a Vox (USA) Super Berkeley reverb Twin funded by newspaper delivery $$$ i had saved. even came with the cool chromed tubular speaker tilt adjustable roll-around mount frame for both. the "E type" guitar had two pre-adjustable circuits that could be changed using the slider switch at the neck side of top cutaway including two flush mount rotary pots through metal mount plate. these were Leo's flagship offering at the time with buyer's options for body wood used and 4 different (IIRC) neck widths available.

it is rare to find these today with the chromed snap-on bridge protector still intact as seen in photo. mucho useful for kids with caustic hands like me. if you look closely there is a pivoting mute below the bridge that deadened string vibration with a dense foam rubber glued to contact surface. many of these have gone MIA today also. for a wannabe rocker learning to play Herman's Hermits "Mrs. Brown You've Got A lovely Daughter", this was THE option.

to my thinking the very narrow(est?) neck on it made three finger open A chords nearly a contortionist move. and the sonic options were much less than a standard Strat.

also ironic you picked the 1964 model. easily the best looking E type ever made!!! my Jaguar was a 1964 model too.

mitchfit

[mitchfit]

^^^^

PS-- the Jaguar was very different from Fender guits in that it had "the other guy's" neck scale length.

can't make this stuff up!

mitchfit

[mitchfit]

other fluke guits that somehow flew below radar detection.

the Fender Katana. to an untrained observer this may seem a Flying V clone in shape, set neck and 2 Hunbucker PUPs. 24 3/4" scale length. luckily the pointy head stock was asymmetrical:

duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=pictures+of+Fender+katana+guitars&iax=images&ia=images

the Fender FSR guitar. set neck with 2 Humbuckers. mhogany body and set maple neck.

www.chicagomusicexchange.com/products/fender-fsr-special-edition-custom-telecaster-hh-black-993744

the Gibson "Johnny A" model guitar scale length info vague. some say 25 3/8". others 25 1/2". another just said 22 frets. another just called it Fender scale length. there were 3 variations which might be the cause. either way the custom shop built this guitar:

reverb.com/item/63624677-gibson-custom-shop-johnny-a-signature

the Duesenberg "Johnny Depp" signature guitar. maybe people named Johnny have better luck at getting custom guits built for them. maybe the Academy Awards Show should give an Oscar for a guitar of the year category?

which Duesenberg came first, the car or the guitar?

if you look closely notice the upper aforementioned forbidden "offset waist" on the body, it might be the hummingbird that flew away from the Yamaha FG300 pick guard? alder body, maple neck and 25 1/2" scale. more important, who could resist a guitar decorated with another person's tattoos?

www.duesenberg.de/en/guitars/alliance-series-johnny-depp/

oh yeah, seems Johnny Allen Hendrix got Fender to invert their head stock like just like a Gibson Firebird to suit his preference:

www.fender.com/en-US/electric-guitars/stratocaster/jimi-hendrix-stratocaster/0145802300.html

i'm gonna email the Gibson Custom Shop again and tell them my name is Johnnyfit, might work?

the joker formerly known as,
mitchfit

[pete1951]

I don’t think you can patent a scale length, and anyway I don’t think Gibson ( except on Epiphones?) have used 24 3/4” scale since the 50s . But, if there is an agreement between Gibson,Fender and Warmoth not to use the ‘wrong ‘ scale on a guitar you just need to have a 25 9/16th scale , which will feel the same as a Fender.

I am pretty sure I have fitted a 24 3/4” Warmoth neck on a Strat, so they do do odd scales

Pete

PS : I think the Jaguar had/has a 24” scale rather than ‘ the other guys’. I think Fender used the same fret cutter for all their necks, if you chop the top fret off a Strat/Tele/Jazzmaster fingerboard and add a fret or 2 at the body end you get the 24” scale with21-22 frets. I had a 60s Jag ( the mute was missing,as was the handrest) but sold it to Elvis ( Costello not Presley) who liked the shape, though I only ever saw him play a Jazzmaster live.

I wonder, do you get the same ‘ring/sustain etc ‘ from a Strat tuned a semitone down with a capo on the 1st fret and a Jaguar tuned to pitch with the same strings.?
I never liked the Jag trem and bridge so probably not?

[mitchfit]

pete1951,

even if it was possible to patent any particular scale length, the applicant would need to prove being the first to use that length to the patent office. not really much chance for that. it's the exact point that i'm whining about.

same is the reason why Warmoth shying away from making a custom neck for my guit speaks volumes about the power of intimidation. "all men are created equal", but wealth has been "equaler" for a long time. by that i mean, John Fogerty spent nearly 2 decades in court to win back the right to sound like himself against an army of well funded lawyers in court. this was a right he had to prove?

Warmoth's representative told me they had made a deal with Fender in order to sell drop-in necks for their guits.

yet there are many aftermarket parts for automobiles made by various businesses who have no need for rights to be transferred to them by the original manufacturing companies.

you are correct about the 24" Jag, Oops. had to go look on the internet as mine found a new owner back in the '70s. on that subject the 1981 E2 Explorer i have is 24 3/4" and the 1975 S1 model. think all Les Paul and SG models were also, but that's actually just a guess.

Hendrix tuned his Strat down a semitone for the most part. with his own privacy fence behind him constructed entirely of triple-decker 100 watt Marshall amps, perhaps increased sustain would be an impediment?

my long scale likes are due to the strings needing to be stretched tighter to get the same note as a shorter scale. a capo would not change that much at any location. feel this is where the difference lies, but can't prove that. the flip side of that same record is larger diameter strings would do the same for a short scale. owner's choice.

my sentimental feelings for the Jaguar is whatever Mr. Costello paid for yours was a good deal on your part.

didn't use the Jag trem much after the novelty wore off. also, i have some unused/brand new vintage GENUINE Fender Strat "whammy bars" that i can't find any buyers for. my apologies to the memories of Jimi Hendrix, he found good use for his. i only found a place for mine in the guitar case pocket.

keep up the good work,
mitchfit