Headstock/tuning peg buzz

[Matt]

I recently picked up an old parlour guitar (unknown maker/vintage, smells old). It plays like a dream, except there's a fairly significant buzz from the headstock when playing the 3rd string (tuned to F#, if that matters). It definitely seems to be coming from the tuning hardware - it's a metallic buzz and I'm 99% certain his guitar has neither a truss rod nor a steel reinforced neck.

I've tried putting some match stick shavings in the screw holes and re-inserting screws to snug things up a bit, but to no avail. The pegs themselves don't seem to have play when the strings are under tension, and regardless they seem to be riveted together so there's nothing to tighten with a screwdriver. Does anyone have any pointers? Is my best bet just to ditch them for some stew mac Golden Age repros?

It seems a shame to lose the original tuners, but in the end I want a player not a wall-hanger.

[pete1951]

Most modern guitars have the m/heads fitted the other way round, The string tension then pulls the cog onto the worm gear,. This keeps the mechanism in close contact. So you could swop them over. Left side to right,right to left.
M/head buttons can also come loose ( though rattles are more common with metal buttons) a tiny spot a super glue on the shaft can fix it.
This could also be used on a loose riveted part of the m/heads
Does the buzz/rattle go away when using a capo? Could it be the nut?
You could try putting a strong magnet on the neck to check that there is no steel bar hidden there, It’s possible this is loose (this is unlikely but you never know) A fine drill through a position dot would let you get some glue in.

Can’t think of anything else
Pete

[Michael Messer]

Hello Matt,

That's a nice looking guitar. Rattles on the headstock are devils and can be hard to find. Pete is spot on with his advice. It can only be tuners, nut or some kind of rod in the neck. The tuners are lovely, so it would be good to preserve them, but if they stop the guitar from being playable, they have to go. The more you hear it the worse it gets. Darn those rattles!

Jenny Lewis is really good, she has made some great albums.

Shine On
Michael

[marshcat]

An inelegant solution, but to stop tuner rattle I sometimes stretch an elastic band around and between the tuner peg shanks on a style 1 triplate which migrated from a certain Mr Messer some decades ago. They're Waverly tuners but it's a loud guitar!

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I put a set of new Stewmac Fleur-de-Lis tuners on a National - and got an annoying buzz from the headstock end.
Turns out the tuner buttons were a little loose on the tuner button metal posts.
I was able to pull off the tuner buttons - then pop them back on with some super-glue.
That seemed to do the trick.
Are the buttons loose on your guitar's tuners ?? Have a good look !

[pete1951]

One thing I forgot..
Tap the back of the neck with your finger, this sometimes helps to narrow down the rattle. If it rattles you could remove the m/heads, if the rattle goes away it must be the tuners, if if persists it could be a hidden rod or bar.
Good luck
Pete

[bonzo]

Completely left field. You mentioned that it buzzes mostly on the third (G) string. Have you checked the string itself? Maybe it has come unwound? ie the string wrap has come away from the core. This can happen sometimes on round core strings but I'm sure it could happen with a damaged hex string as well.
Try replacing that string, see what happens.

[vastopol]

The G string seem very close from the wood.
Maybe just wrapping this string toward the oposite side could solve it ?

[Matt]

I had a chance to revisit this issue finally after a busy week. A few observations:

• Bussing definitely seems to come from a couple of the scroll/cog interfaces on the tuners, or possibly from within a couple of pegs
• Everything is riveted so no hope of tightening
• A couple of the screw holes are stripped, but removing them doesn't help or make things worse
• I can't trivially flip the tuners without drilling new holes in the headstock as the tuning posts are just a little off-centre relative to the screw holes
  

I'm thinking about picking up some new stew mac tuners and seeing if they'll fit right in place. If they won't and drilling is needed, I might consider flipping the current set and positioning them so that there's a little pressure holding the scrolls and cogs snug.

This would require drilling new holes perilously close to the old. Is this a sensible DIY affair or should I be farming it out? I guess the main thing would be to find something like a toothpick that fits snugly in the existing holes and jamming them in with some wood glue?

[Matt]

Funnily enough, it actually seems to have diminished by 80-90% just as the new strings I put on are breaking in. I guess it's one of the various gears being more worn at some places than others.

I guess at the very least I should try to remedy the stripped screw hole situation. I'm sure eventually I'll want a longer term solution for the buzz too.

[Michael Messer]

Matt, I think that long term you should probably fit a set of new tuners and put those original ones away in a safe place. The guitar needs to work and it is not a collectors' piece. The tuners are nice, but you could be messing around with them forever.

Just make sure you check the spacing before you buy anything. I reckon a set of Stumac Golden Age will do the job.

www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/tuning-machines/slotted-peghead-guitar-tuning-machines/golden-age-restoration-tuners-for-slotted-peghead-guitar---square-end/?&pref_currency=GBP&shipcalc=UK&mtm_source=google&mtm_medium=cpc&mtm_campaign=%7C+GOO+%7C+SHOP+%7C+BR+%7C+BrandUK&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAhJWsBhAaEiwAmrNyq5GQanzobziqQrxQdsx6mk8ivwOK4EsGnXqQifXWYRFr3GlBOSJ3ghoCxkcQAvD_BwE

Shine On
Michael

[Matt]

I think you're right, Michael. It's a really nice player and projects really well for its size.

I don't suppose anyone knows the history of the odd dimensions of tuning pegs as illustrated by stew mac?

4.023" long, screw spacings of 1.202", 1.432", and 1.109", etc?

[Matt]

Dec 22, 2023 11:39:51 GMT Michael Messer said:

Just make sure you check the spacing before you buy anything. I reckon a set of Stumac Golden Age will do the job.

Glad I did this, I seem to have quite the non-standard dimensions here. Posts on the Stewmac are spaced 34.93mm, mine seem to be about 31.8mm

[Michael Messer]

In that case, rather than three on a strip, maybe put separate ones on. I think Stewmac Golden Age come in that style.

Shine On
Michael

[Matt]

After quite the frustrating afternoon trying to find tuners with compatible dimensions, I'm going to hit pause on this until the buzz re-emerges. When that day comes, the best bet right now looks like cutting a strip of golden age tuners into 3 to lose the extra length and drilling new screw holes!