Alternative to understringing?

[bonzo]

My Republic parlour resos' neck was getting a bit banana like and making it difficult to fret.  I didn't want to go the whole hog and put a nut riser on as I do like it as it is, nice tone, not big but a parlour isn't supposed to be is it. I had gone as far as I could lowering the bridge and I didn't want to understring so came up with this as a solution (see pics). Just enough break angle and strings clear of cover plate. Sounds good 👍. You wouldn't do it on your bestest reso, but might be useful when a neck reset isn't warranted. Apologies if this is old news. 
Best wishes to you all, John PS just noticed low E had slipped off the bridge

[Michael Messer]

An innovative idea. Couldn't you have put the strings in the keyholes as usual and then run them through the slots you made? I guess another way is to remove the front rim completely.

Shine On
Michael

[bonzo]

Thanks Michael. I did run the strings through the slots to begin with but I dropped another couple off mm by lowering the front of the rim.

[flamenco]

What can you do with a resonator with an action too high for fingerstyle but

 zero angle on the bridge?

[Michael Messer]

I would need to see a photo that shows the break angle to the tailpiece and the string height on the neck, but instinct tells me that you need to get your guitar's neck reset. This is major surgery, but if it is done well it does transform the guitar. This can only be done if it is a properly built resonator guitar.

Shine On
Michael

[mrstrellisofnwales]

On my internet browsing I’ve seen several parlour sized resonators which were under strung including the one in the Promotional YouTube video for a Washburn R360K which is from the makers NAMM stand! Would I be right to think that these have been put out with too long a tailpiece to allow for proper angles? No allowance seems to have been made for the smaller size of the guitar.  Then again, who am I to disagree with the guy who actually designed the guitar?
Mrs T 

[Michael Messer]

Mrs T, Sadly it is because every one of those guitars was built with an incorrect neck angle, so the only way to string them up to sell is to understring them.

Yet another company that has no interest in the product, the manufacturer, the dealer or the customer. It was ten years ago and they probably just wanted as many as possible of those parlour type resonator guitars, as cheap as possible and as fast as possible. Likely sent them a few photos Frankensteined together to make their own design and that was it.

The guy in the video representing the company proves that neither he or the company know anything about what they are trying to make and sell. They never took off, so the company was proved wrong by the public.



I used to write reviews of this stuff for the glossy guitar magazines and it was the reason I ended up in the guitar business.

Shine On
Michael

[mrstrellisofnwales]

There’s a very popular cheap brand doing exactly the same today. I don’t want to get accused of defamation so won’t name it but it’s easy to find. But again it’s a parlour reso and again seems to have a tailpiece which comes very close to the bridge. So if a shorter tailpiece were fitted to one of these guitars would it be a fix? And indeed could it be a fix for an older guitar which has a bit of neck creep? Asking for a friend with an old cheapo reso which is showing some creep but isn’t worth a neck reset. 
Mrs T

[bonzo]

Hi Mrs trellis. You may notice on my original post that I do have a short tailpiece, they can be found. The tailpiece itself didn't affect the height of the strings over the bridge but the adjustments I made to it made it possible for me to lower the bridge while still keeping a decent break angle. On a parlour guitar a 'long' tailpiece puts the strings to close to the bridge as you've realised, given hardly any break angle at all. As MM said earlier the solution would be a neck reset, but on a cheap guitar the expense doesn't seem justified.
Best wishes to you all, John 👍

[pete1951]

Feb 14, 2024 9:11:54 GMT bonzo said:

Hi Mrs trellis. You may notice on my original post that I do have a short tailpiece, they can be found. The tailpiece itself didn't affect the height of the strings over the bridge but the adjustments I made to it made it possible for me to lower the bridge while still keeping a decent break angle. On a parlour guitar a 'long' tailpiece puts the strings to close to the bridge as you've realised, given hardly any break angle at all. As MM said earlier the solution would be a neck reset, but on a cheap guitar the expense doesn't seem justified.
Best wishes to you all, John 👍

Though, on Bonzo’s example, the angle isn’t increased with a short tail generally this may not be the case.
It depends on the curve of the cover plate. If the end of the tail sits farther down the curve then the angle will increase. This does not look right and the long string length behind the bridge may give some unwanted ringing but could make a lifeless sounding reso more responsive.

Unfortunately I think most of these guitars are basically standard guitars ( a dovetail joint rather than a neckstick like most National or MMs) the machines used have been left to give a ‘standard ‘ or only slightly increased neck angle which is too small even for an under strung tailpiece.

You can use a dovetail if you get the angle right ( do all National Trojans have this type of joint?) and produce a reasonable budget reso, but the neck angle has to be correct for the cone!
Pete

[bonzo]

Point taken Pete. I should have maybe made it clearer that I was talking about a parlour size guitar as I think mrstrellis was.
A short tailpiece on a regular size reso would more than likely put the strings too close to the coverplate. Seems to work well on the smaller body parlours.

[Michael Messer]

Mrs T, I think I have a couple of short tailpieces. I don’t think it will do the trick, but it might. PM me if you want to try one

Shine On

[Pickers Ditch]

My 1133 has its original long tailpiece and a previous owner had filed slots in the bump to improve the break angle.
I tried a shorter tailpiece and it did nowt.
Refitted the original and learned to live with it.
Sometime soon I'm going to have to replace the saddle and adjust the neck angle (a screw adjustment thankfully).

[Michael Messer]

Feb 14, 2024 10:36:22 GMT Pickers Ditch said:

My 1133 has its original long tailpiece and a previous owner had filed slots in the bump to improve the break angle.
I tried a shorter tailpiece and it did nowt.
Refitted the original and learned to live with it.
Sometime soon I'm going to have to replace the saddle and adjust the neck angle (a screw adjustment thankfully).

My 1133 has its original long tailpiece and it is fine, no adjustments required. Malcolm, the adjustment on that neck should be pretty straightforward to get right.

This is Mark Makin's illustration of my 1133. AKA "Diving Duck"





Oops...they're a bit large!

Shine On
Michael

[Pickers Ditch]

Feb 14, 2024 10:47:17 GMT Michael Messer said:

Feb 14, 2024 10:36:22 GMT Pickers Ditch said:

My 1133 has its original long tailpiece and a previous owner had filed slots in the bump to improve the break angle.
I tried a shorter tailpiece and it did nowt.
Refitted the original and learned to live with it.
Sometime soon I'm going to have to replace the saddle and adjust the neck angle (a screw adjustment thankfully).

My 1133 has its original long tailpiece and it is fine, no adjustments required. Malcolm, the adjustment on that neck should be pretty straightforward to get right.

Shine On
Michael

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Hopefully the tall man in Cambridge will help when the sun shines.