More perils of understringing

[Bo Grohl]

Not my pic, posted on a FB page.
This is a '31 National, and the guy's "guitar tech" had been understringing it for 35 years...
TT

[Michael Messer]

Lovely! That guitar tech (or more likely the owner, as everyone's got guitar techs these days) knows how to destroy 6" cones. Over time that will push the T-bridge into the back bass cone, which eventually will need replacing.

Shine On
Michael

[ken1953clark]

So, a kind of job creation scheme on the part of the Tech :-)

[pete1951]

I fully agree with the idea that under stringing is not only bad for most (reso) guitars but is also ugly.

However, what if the guitar is badly in need of a neck reset? And the saddle is very low?



A very low saddle would ( after under stringing) give the same pressure on the cone as a high saddle probably strung.

There could be some more subtle effects that the lower start angle could have? Also, if the neck was reset the owner might continue with this bad habit and reck the cones.

[Michael Messer]

Pete, it does't work, it is something to do with the way the strings come from such a low starting point touching the coverplate. It just pulls the bridge saddle back, which on single cone biscuits either breaks the saddle, or pushes the back end of the biscuit into the cone. On triplates it does what I have said in my previous post.....Over time that will push the T-bridge into the back bass cone, which eventually will need replacing.


To understring a beautiful 1931 Style 2 triplate is sacrilege and the owner should have that guitar impounded!

Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Hi there !

While I accept the wisdom of MM etc, I could 100% understand the concept IF the tailpiece wasn't able to bend - either a little across the length, or just bend a degree or two at the "90" degree bend (more than 90 actually !), where it bends over the edge of the guitar.

But as the tailpiece must be able to bend a few mm's up and down at the free end, where the strings go in, why can't the strings still emerge from the tailpiece at the same height, no matter if strung the correct way or understrung ? (eg. the tailpiece could bend upwards when understrung).
Wouldn't this be possible on a Tricone, unlike on a Single-cone's raised coverplate, getting in the way ?

I don't understand why the strings are able to move/bend, under tension, and the thin tailpiece doesn't bend instead.

[Michael Messer]

Richard, the strings are still coming from an angle that is too steep. I agree the tailpiece does have some bend in it, but not enough to compensate for the understringing. If it did there would be no point in under stringing.

We need a proper answer to this. Next time I talk with Mike Lewis I will ask him.

Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Hi again !

I suppose what we need is a way of measuring the angle of the STRINGS, between the saddle and the tailpiece, and then compare the angle when strung normal & understrung.
If the string comes out of the tailpiece hole at different angles depending on how the string was thread through, that is one thing.

But if the angle that the string goes over the saddle is the same, then it shouldn't do anything different to the saddle, & thus the cones.
Just a thing that has always bugged me, not knowing the answer.

We are talking about Tricones at the moment though, where the coverplate doesn't / can't influence anything (as it's too far away !)

[Michael Messer]

I am pretty sure this tailpiece has broken because of understringing and maybe high bass tunings GBDGBD or AC#EAC#E. You can see that the end of the tailpiece has been bent upwards to allow the strings to come from underneath, and in doing so they have broken it.

I have never seen this break on any other National tailpiece before.



Shine On
Michael

[leeophonic]

Also it is starting to pull the tailpiece into the body, a split seam sooner or later !!!!

Lee

[slide496]

I have both types of resonators, one correctly strung and the other came understrung,. It makes sense to me, though I am not a technician that the tailpiece could torque and bend that way on the bass side under tension.

The bass side on mine contacts with the top of the tailpiece because of the string thickness, and always will under any tension, whereas the treble side does not.

I change the strings on my understrung more frequently to sort of keep the tension the same as when it was manufactured and tuned to vestapol D as if I increase the tension and go to a higher pitch, the tension is going to lift the bass and there's no balancing limiter on the treble side like there is on an overstrung resonator.

Pehaps an understrung would require a compensated tailpiece to keep the balance where all strings make contact with the top of the tailpiece or a compensated bridge/nut system if that is possible.

[zero]

Understringing alone would not cause this. Looks like someone tried to bend that tailpiece so the strings would not be rubbing on the body. In order to bend them you would need to bend it in a vice. Metal bends at the weakest point which is the round cutouts. Once you do that they are never the same, they will always be weak at that bend. It is just a matter of time before it breaks. This is the same thing that happens on archtop guitars where the tailpiece bends over the end of the guitar. Some people want to change that angle by bending them and this is what happens as I'm sure we have all seen before.